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UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 12 Jun 2009, 05:05:03

The price of oil burst through the $71 a barrel mark today amid revelations that proven reserves had fallen for the first time in 10 years and predictions that the price could eventually hit $250.

The latest high – from lows of $30 only four months ago – came on the New York Mercantile Exchange, where the cost of July deliveries rose by $1.35 to $71.36.

This comes on top of a $2 rise the day before as investors rushed into the market on the back of lower stockpile figures, higher demand estimates and speculation against further falls in the dollar.

"I wouldn't be surprised if we're testing $80 in a week or two," said one analyst, while BP's chief executive, Tony Hayward, questioned whether $90 could be the "right" value.

Kuwait's oil minister, Sheikh Ahmad al-Abdullah al-Sabah, put some of the rise down to signs of recovery in Asia but warned that overall demand was still weaker than last year. Opec would not raise supply at current oil prices but did not rule it out "if it reached $100", he said.

Alexei Miller, chairman of the Russian energy group Gazprom, raised the stakes further when he reiterated last year's estimates of $250 a barrel. "This forecast has not become reality yet, given that the [credit] crisis gained momentum and exerted a powerful impact on the global energy market. But does this mean that our forecast was unrealistic? Not at all."

The latest surge has also raised fears that higher energy costs could snuff out the nascent economic recovery. Shares on Wall Street's Nasdaq index fell 1%.

The febrile atmosphere in oil markets was fed by the publication of BP's Statistical Review of World Energy, which showed that the world's proven crude reserves had fallen by 3bn barrels to 1.258tn by 2008 from a revised 1.261tn in 2007.

Declines in important producers such as Russia and Norway offset rises in new areas such as Vietnam, India and Egypt. The figures did not include Canada's tar sands, which are put at 150bn barrels.

The drop is partly attributed to a drop in exploration drilling due to the precipitous fall in oil prices last year but also to the end of "easy" oil. Conflict this week in the Amazon and speculation about Arctic drilling underlined how oil companies are pushing into environmentally sensitive places to find new reserves.

Tony Hayward, BP's chief executive, insisted there was enough crude to last 42 years at current consumption levels, roughly the same as last year. Adherents of "peak oil" – the theory that the maximum rate of oil production has been reached – believe supplies will run out much sooner because of growing demand.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/10/oil-market-reserves

Interesting.. so there we have it, the "rosiest" picture has oil lasting another 42 years. The key caveat though, of course, is "at current usage."
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby gandolf » Fri 12 Jun 2009, 05:12:08

When I go mushroom picking I always firstly go where the mushrooms are easiest to get. It is so easy to fill the bucket when they are bunched together in big groups.

It takes so much longer to pick the last half of the mushrooms that are all spread out, smaller and much harder to get at.

I love mushrooms.
There never was much hope. Just a fool's hope.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby 35Kas » Fri 12 Jun 2009, 06:19:35

I am not so sure the last 42 Years will be even. Did they account for the ever decreasing extraction and EROEI? That reduces the countdown to madness to some ten years?
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby americandream » Fri 12 Jun 2009, 06:27:51

These experts have no fcukkin idea. Wait till China gets into full swing cornucopia.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby Pops » Fri 12 Jun 2009, 17:34:44

Look on the bright side, maybe our current situation will become known as the "Last Depression" and demand not only doesn't recover but continues to decline forever.

Heck, in that case we might never run out of oil...
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby Sys1 » Sun 14 Jun 2009, 14:34:14

This 42 years reserves means either BP's experts are dumber than Joe Sixpack, either they lie like lawers.
Pick up any of those hypothesis, the conclusion stay the same : we're definitally screwed.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Sun 14 Jun 2009, 14:38:28

42 years from now, I doubt the technology will still exist to extract oil from under 3 miles of water and 4 miles of seabed which is where any remaining oil will be.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Mon 15 Jun 2009, 19:16:43

Sys1 wrote:This 42 years reserves means either BP's experts are dumber than Joe Sixpack, either they lie like lawers.
Pick up any of those hypothesis, the conclusion stay the same : we're definitally screwed.


Mad Max style livin'(or dyin' more likely) here we come! :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby TonyPrep » Wed 17 Jun 2009, 04:15:56

Tony Hayward, BP's chief executive, insisted there was enough crude to last 42 years at current consumption levels, roughly the same as last year.
The usual useless calculation from those who wish to drag the world to an unending crisis. Does Tony Hayward actually believe that current reserves can be produced at current levels for 42 years, or that consumption levels (or attempted consumption levels) will not change for 42 years, with developing countries aspiring to higher living standards and population increasing by tens of millions each year? If he does, he's a fool. If he doesn't then he should be hauled over hot coals for such a remark, since he would obviously be interested only in lining his pockets for as long as possible.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby DantesPeak » Wed 17 Jun 2009, 07:32:37

Actually in his speech Miller of Gazprom said the price of oil could pass $250.

But I did find it funny someone actually said in the article above that Egypt, India, and Vietnam could replace lost oil from Russis and Norway.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby eastbay » Wed 17 Jun 2009, 07:44:01

DantesPeak wrote:Actually in his speech Miller of Gazprom said the price of oil could pass $250.

But I did find it funny someone actually said in the article above that Egypt, India, and Vietnam could replace lost oil from Russis and Norway.



Nice to read your input Dante. Hope to read your well thought out and sensible commentary more and more around here! :)

Replace production lost due to Russian depletion? HAH! That's as silly as thinking humans can replace lost production from Ghawar! Idiotic nonsense such as that, sadly most people will still believe.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby The_Virginian » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 15:12:36

it MAY be at 250 due to a decline in dollar value just as much as "scarcity" ( trying to hide comming inflation?)

IRAQ may be able to cover any projected declines in Russia, if Russia can tap some more siberian crude...big if, and if Iraq remains a low intensity conflict...another "if"

Natural gas may take up some slack.
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby spot5050 » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 21:06:03

UK Guardian wrote:Tony Hayward, BP's chief executive, insisted there was enough crude to last 42 years at current consumption levels, roughly the same as last year.

Tony Hayward is telling us that we are at the peak.

"Current consumption levels" are 74 million barrels per day http://www.eia.doe.gov/aer/txt/ptb1105.html so 42 years of consumption at that rate is 74 x 365 x 42 = 1,134,420 million barrels which is about the same as what has been produced so far.

In other words, good ol' Tony Hayward is telling us that we are at the half-way point. What a nice chap. Cheers Tony.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby outcast » Tue 07 Jul 2009, 23:27:14

The_Virginian wrote:it MAY be at 250 due to a decline in dollar value just as much as "scarcity" ( trying to hide comming inflation?)

IRAQ may be able to cover any projected declines in Russia, if Russia can tap some more siberian crude...big if, and if Iraq remains a low intensity conflict...another "if"

Natural gas may take up some slack.



Lets also not forget the newly opened artic has lots of oil. Oil Finder has been posting lots of oil finds this year. So oil at $250, where did we hear that one again?
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby pablonite » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 01:01:45

pops wrote:Look on the bright side, maybe our current situation will become known as the "Last Depression" and demand not only doesn't recover but continues to decline forever.

Heck, in that case we might never run out of oil...

No doubt that is the plan IMHO.

The rush to write into law a "carbon" based cap n' tax scheme under the guise of manmade global warming in every country on the planet, the timing of the current global money contraction, the militarization of police forces and the dawn of the surveillance era should all work nicely together to ensure an orderly slide into a controlled depletion of carbon based resrouces.

I doubt I'll be around in 2050 but I would bet donuts to federal reserve notes there will still be plenty of oil for the reigning democratic "president of earth" to run his world smurf army made in China, pledging allegiance to the planet and scorching with hell fire all terrorist deniers of earth worship and the earth charter.

I suspect whoever wrote up the recent cap n' tax for the US didn't pull "%80 reduction of greenhouse gases by 2050" out of his arse, it looks like they are making promises that are going to be kept by mother nature. Ahhh, the evolution of politics!
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby TonyPrep » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 01:30:35

outcast wrote:Lets also not forget the newly opened artic has lots of oil. Oil Finder has been posting lots of oil finds this year. So oil at $250, where did we hear that one again?
The Arctic is not newly opened, yet. It may have lots (whatever that means) of oil, that may be produced at levels to offset declines elsewhere. OF has not posted lots of finds this year, compared with previous years (though Lester Brown has claimed only 9 billion barrels of new oil were discovered last year, compared with 30 billion consumed).
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby eastbay » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 01:34:55

Yes, TonyPrep, and let's not forget that any oil produced in the Arctic will be technologically challenging and very costly. Oil will have to be quite costly before we'll start serious exploration and development of whatever (if significant) is fund.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 09:01:18

TonyPrep wrote:
Tony Hayward, BP's chief executive, insisted there was enough crude to last 42 years at current consumption levels, roughly the same as last year.
The usual useless calculation from those who wish to drag the world to an unending crisis. Does Tony Hayward actually believe that current reserves can be produced at current levels for 42 years, or that consumption levels (or attempted consumption levels) will not change for 42 years, with developing countries aspiring to higher living standards and population increasing by tens of millions each year? If he does, he's a fool. If he doesn't then he should be hauled over hot coals for such a remark, since he would obviously be interested only in lining his pockets for as long as possible.


What's wrong with "lining his pockets for as long as possible"? Shouldn't a vampire drink blood until the victim dies?

I thought that WAS one of the current paradigm of what passes now for capitalism. Right along with the "snatch and run" pursesnatcher and the "smash and grab" burglar.

He'll make his money by screwing the rest of us, and when everything collapses, retreat to his mansion or gated community.

Nothing to see here; or at least nothing to alter my justifiably cynical world view.
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Re: UK Guardian: oil headed for $250, proven reserves in decline

Unread postby outcast » Wed 08 Jul 2009, 12:59:34

eastbay wrote:Yes, TonyPrep, and let's not forget that any oil produced in the Arctic will be technologically challenging and very costly. Oil will have to be quite costly before we'll start serious exploration and development of whatever (if significant) is fund.



To be fair Prudhoe Bay wasn't a walk in the park either at first. Economies of scale brings costs down.


Anyway, oil is now at $61.56, so another busted price prediction maybe?
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