deMolay wrote:http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/powers/2009/0731.html
shortonsense wrote:deMolay wrote:http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/powers/2009/0731.html
I guess I don't understand the "proof positive" part? Can't the guy just present a graph of oil production? Here it is going up..there it is leveling off...there it is declining!
I suppose that would be too easy, or generate too many questions related to all the other peaks, or questioning from the uneducated masses who have but to look around to say, " gee, a year post peak and things sure look the same as they did last year...except gasoline is cheaper" and then the lightbulb clicks on..."hey! wait! If this peak oil stuff means cheaper crude prices then BRING ON SOME MORE!!".
As far as I'm concerned, anything that comes out of the mouth of an "investment advisor" is not news, it is a sales pitch.
vision-master wrote:Show me your proof?
shortonsense wrote:Heinberg declared peak oil day as July 11, 2008.
So what has happened since then?
shortonsense wrote:The EIA says that gasoline prices are $1.45 cheaper this year.
Roy wrote:As far as I'm concerned, anything that comes out of the mouth of an "investment advisor" is not news, it is a sales pitch.
+1
AgentR wrote:shortonsense wrote:The EIA says that gasoline prices are $1.45 cheaper this year.
Why are people still so desperate to believe that a peaking of oil production guarantees any particular outcome with regard to pricing.
AgentR wrote:Everyone just assumes that demand is some inexorable divine power that will continue, constantly rising regardless of what the state of the economy is.
AgentR wrote: Demand can fall as easily as it can rise, disastrous economic events can destroy so much demand that oil producers would be lucky to give the stuff away; even if they are only producing 80% of what they once were able to do.
Auntie_Cipation wrote:shortonsense wrote:Heinberg declared peak oil day as July 11, 2008.
So what has happened since then?
Assuming Heinberg was right (and I'm neither claiming nor denying that), why would you expect to see certain changes so soon?
Auntie_Cipation wrote:
And why would you not think that the broader things going on (economic recession, for the most obvious example) are part of "what has happened since then?"
Auntie_Cipation wrote:If you really believe that the world is so simple, so uncomplicated and obvious, and that peak oil is the only important thing happening that affects our perceptions of our culture, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Auntie_Cipation wrote:But to expect only first-order consequences, and to expect them to appear so soon and so blatantly, is very naive, IMO.
Auntie_Cipation wrote:Personally I believe we ARE seeing the effects (not the only effects, just the phase we're in at the moment) of peak oil, regardless of whether it peaked in 08 or will spike again next year (or whenever) for the ultimate peak. The date doesn't matter, the balls are already rolling down the chutes on this Rube Goldberg device we call industrial civilization. There have been, and will continue to be, dozens and dozens of categories of consequences, some of which are inevitable and some whose form will be determined by what ELSE is going on in the world at the same time.
shortonsense wrote:So yes, people did used to think that peak effects would show up in the price of crude and gasoline. To claim otherwise shows a tendency towards revisionism.
AgentR wrote:shortonsense wrote:So yes, people did used to think that peak effects would show up in the price of crude and gasoline. To claim otherwise shows a tendency towards revisionism.
No intent toward revisionism here, read what I wrote. Why are people still harping on price. We are right in the middle of a solid counterexample; production is static or slipping, but price has fallen, not risen. Its falling because the [b]demand[/d] side of the equation has collapsed.
AgentR wrote:The tighter the cap on current production, the more destructive each of the "tap" events becomes, and the more intense the jitter becomes.
Its this dynamic that *I* believe makes the effects extremely unpredictable.
kiwichick wrote:shortonsence;give it time darling ; as the song says
you ain't seen nothing yet baby
you ain't been around
shortonsense wrote:Malthus was pretty thoroughly discredited within 75 years of his death. Jevons was discredited by substitution and modern economics within 40 years of his. Ehrlich was discredited fast enough that he could watch in real time. The same with Duncan.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests