[SeaGypsy]

Being an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[rangerone314]

Being an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

A nice race to the bottom. Maybe we should encourage the Chinese to go back to communism! LOL!

Could always go back to a time-honored tradition -- tariffs. We build solar thermal plants, smart grids, re-energize our manufacturing base, re-energize the middle class. Build it ourselves and sell it to ourselves.

Let the Chinese continue making their cheap cr*p and choke on their coal powerplant fumes.

[SeaGypsy]

Being an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

A nice race to the bottom. Maybe we should encourage the Chinese to go back to communism! LOL!

Could always go back to a time-honored tradition -- tariffs. We build solar thermal plants, smart grids, re-energize our manufacturing base, re-energize the middle class. Build it ourselves and sell it to ourselves.

Let the Chinese continue making their cheap cr*p and choke on their coal powerplant fumes.

If you had to have a 50/50 board running your company (Guv/Private) perhaps you would believe cummunism still exists in China?

China's biggest real competition will come from her diaspora, Asia will be laughing at the USA soon. There are 2 China's internal and external. They have far more in common than China internal has with the west. They will compete, but they will avoid war along with exhorbitant wages and service costs.

As for Chinese junk.... how old are you? Do you remember when Japan made crappy b grade shite and scratched it's way by tooth and claw to Westernism? Aren't Harley Davidson parts manufactured in Japan these days because the Japs can make a Harley that doesn't leak oil?

[vision-master]

The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

We will have to be disarmed 1st.

[SeaGypsy]

The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

We will have to be disarmed 1st.

If that wasn't so sad it would be funny VM; or is it both?

[vision-master]

The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

We will have to be disarmed 1st.

If that wasn't so sad it would be funny VM; or is it both?

I think disarming US citizens could trigger a white male middle class revolt?

[SeaGypsy]

The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

We will have to be disarmed 1st.

If that wasn't so sad it would be funny VM; or is it both?

I think disarming US citizens could trigger a white male middle class revolt?

Ha! now you are being funny VM! Have you done your meds?

[vision-master]

No, but the 9mm and 380 are fully loaded right now!

[SeaGypsy]

No, but the 9mm and 380 are fully loaded right now!

Just because I like you VM I will do you a deal?

Asia needs more cool white dudes man!

Drop the guns and I will get you a job!

[rangerone314]

If you had to have a 50/50 board running your company (Guv/Private) perhaps you would believe cummunism still exists in China?

China's biggest real competition will come from her diaspora, Asia will be laughing at the USA soon. There are 2 China's internal and external. They have far more in common than China internal has with the west. They will compete, but they will avoid war along with exhorbitant wages and service costs.

As for Chinese junk.... how old are you? Do you remember when Japan made crappy b grade shite and scratched it's way by tooth and claw to Westernism? Aren't Harley Davidson parts manufactured in Japan these days because the Japs can make a Harley that doesn't leak oil?

I do remember cheap Japanese crud... I don't remember people being poisoned by Japanese toothpaste though.

[SeaGypsy]

Everyone in the world has heard about the asian obsession with "Face" (Public Dignity).

This is not Myth.

It is the Law of Survival in Asia.

Asia is infinitely safer than western countries because of this simple fact:

"Mind your manners and your manners will mind you."

When the bad guys get on the meths in Asia they hunt the ill mannered rather than their family or school mates they don't like.

[hillsidedigger]

I suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.

[SeaGypsy]

I suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.

Maybe correct but not before even our token hippies like VM get to try out their paramilitary skills.

[AgentR]

I think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

I think people around here get wrapped up in a "The US is going to get it!" mentality. Truthfully, the moment the US ceases to be an asset to China in its build out efforts, is the moment they will no longer give two flips about whether we are successful and comfortable, or destitute and starving. Irrelevant is Irrelevant.

My hunch is that trade between the US and China will taper off some, but will remain significant for a very long time; as their need for dollars drops, the motivation to make little worthless plastic trinkets used for a couple hours of a child's entertainment should come to an end; but the US still grows or manufactures an interesting array of stuff to sell. In the end, the best way to finalize the change over, is to get the previous printer of the reserve currency to use your currency to conduct international trade.

I think that day is closer than many on Wall Street would like to believe; could come even sooner than would make China comfortable. Stable currency is stable. Stable means a dependable mark of valuation, something the dollar no longer is.

[SeaGypsy]

I think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

I think people around here get wrapped up in a "The US is going to get it!" mentality. Truthfully, the moment the US ceases to be an asset to China in its build out efforts, is the moment they will no longer give two flips about whether we are successful and comfortable, or destitute and starving. Irrelevant is Irrelevant.

My hunch is that trade between the US and China will taper off some, but will remain significant for a very long time; as their need for dollars drops, the motivation to make little worthless plastic trinkets used for a couple hours of a child's entertainment should come to an end; but the US still grows or manufactures an interesting array of stuff to sell. In the end, the best way to finalize the change over, is to get the previous printer of the reserve currency to use your currency to conduct international trade.

I think that day is closer than many on Wall Street would like to believe; could come even sooner than would make China comfortable. Stable currency is stable. Stable means a dependable mark of valuation, something the dollar no longer is.

The 1st parts of your post and the grist of it I agree with but for 1 essential point:

Do your homework on who is gearing up quickest to supply massive amounts of 'New Energy" or renewables. Its\'s China. Those who think China can't do world class manufacturing are living in fantasy land.
The high end tech coming out of China is up there with th best in the world. Sorry.

[SeaGypsy]

Not sure if this applies extremely broadly but I will use myself as an example.

Some poeple here know I wipe bums for a living.

Fewer know thar 10 years ago I was making 20 times my hourly rate now, blowing glass.

What happened was this:

the Chinese collected a lot of information about glass art business, they then advertised and hired a bunch of new fresh graduate glassblowers over a period of 10 years from the mid/late 90's.

To start with the stuff was crap. It got better.

Now it is impossible to tell Chinese art glass from Australian or American or Austrian or Dutch, except by turning it upside down to note the artists signature.

Chinese artists who would be famous for their skill in the west do not even sign their work in China.

An American street cleaner makes more per hour than this artist makes in a day.

Chinese can retail hand blown glass in the west, cheaper than we can make raw glass.

[AgentR]

Those who think China can't do world class manufacturing are living in fantasy land.The high end tech coming out of China is up there with th best in the world. Sorry.

Um, nothing in what I wrote is counter to that. I think you misread my comment about the US still manufacturing stuff to sell as saying only the US is manufacturing high tech; which is complete nonsense and a misunderstanding about how trade works. Both the US and China will be manufacturing very high tech stuff for as long as international trade is running; its the low tech, low margin junk that I think will fall off, not so much to the US, but probably central America and Mexico. A wild card in my book is grain pricing and production; so many divergent possibilities there, some of which could easily see the US exporting grain, contracts settling in rinminbi, completely displacing any particular need to export mass high tech stuff to China. (there's alway be nitch widgets made in only one place..)

My point is that China should be thought of as indifferent to US prosperity, not hostile to it. And honestly, not as angry as they should have a right to be given what we're doing to the dollar. Old stereotype probably applies well; as long as you don't push the old Chinese guy past the point of disaster, he'll probably smile and find a way to make a buck out of the mess. Just don't expect half-way angry if you do cross the line!

[SeaGypsy]

Those who think China can't do world class manufacturing are living in fantasy land.The high end tech coming out of China is up there with th best in the world. Sorry.

Um, nothing in what I wrote is counter to that. I think you misread my comment about the US still manufacturing stuff to sell as saying only the US is manufacturing high tech; which is complete nonsense and a misunderstanding about how trade works. Both the US and China will be manufacturing very high tech stuff for as long as international trade is running; its the low tech, low margin junk that I think will fall off, not so much to the US, but probably central America and Mexico. A wild card in my book is grain pricing and production; so many divergent possibilities there, some of which could easily see the US exporting grain, contracts settling in rinminbi, completely displacing any particular need to export mass high tech stuff to China. (there's alway be nitch widgets made in only one place..)

My point is that China should be thought of as indifferent to US prosperity, not hostile to it. And honestly, not as angry as they should have a right to be given what we're doing to the dollar. Old stereotype probably applies well; as long as you don't push the old Chinese guy past the point of disaster, he'll probably smile and find a way to make a buck out of the mess. Just don't expect half-way angry if you do cross the line!

Nice and clear now Agent!
Whose line are you referring to there?
The line where the USD is dumped as reserve?
The line where The USA's borders have collapsed while China's are expanding surupticiously with no need for blatant imperialism?

[rangerone314]

I think many Westerner's misunderstand what Chinese hegemony would be like, because they view it from our own history; which almost invariably involves territorial expansion and projection of military power. China is very different in practically every way, and while they are managing their currency in a way that could very well lead to its adoption as the next international reserve currency, one would be very unlikely to see projected power outside the historic borders. China would look at a suggestion of ruling SE asia like a plate full of plague; much better to create dependent business ties doing transactions in rinminbi. Troops cost money, businesses make money.

Vietnam, India, East Turkistan and Tibet might disagree.

It will be interesting in near future when food becomes in issue to see what the Chinese will do when land they own or lease in an African country to grow food on for Chinese is taken back because people in that country are starving too.

[vision-master]

I suspect China will shortly become one of the first really dramatic examples of 'dieoff' not from starvation but from poisoning. India and parts of Africa will get to demonstrate the starvation principle.

Maybe correct but not before even our token hippies like VM get to try out their paramilitary skills.

Woodstock an Guns.....