Newfie wrote:Pstarr, I think we are fighting a loosing battle here. You can't fix stupid.
That is probably a bit cruel ( if warranted) but this is just another form of denialism. "We don't need to mend our ways, technology will see us through!"
One would like to think that otherwise intelligent and thoughtful folks would be able to see through the BS. But obviously it is not so. The elixir of hope is too sweet.
I expect I'll be roundly pummeled for these sentiments
americandream wrote:Solar roads from the perspective of the ordinary bloke will probably buy us time (if feasible)....perhaps stretch capitalism out another 4 decades or so beyond mid century. So from that point of view, I guess some can draw comfort. But when all is said and done, earth's capitalists will try and use this time to move elsewhere as another 7 decades of JIT consumerism's rubbish pump and dump will pretty much see this planet rendered uninhabitable.
I get chased all around the country for this job or that. You mean to tell me there is no one in Miami or Chicago who can do what I do?
There's a lot of false information about Solar Roadways flying around the internet these days and some of it is just SO freakin' wrong that we've created this page to set the record straight!
Hi Folks,
We've gotten a lot of attention in recent weeks due to our Indiegogo campaign. The worldwide support has been nothing short of wonderful and we thank everyone everywhere.
Most of the attention has been very positive, but as the campaign became more and more successful (and popular), the naysayers began coming out in force trying to grab some attention. They use non-scientific "facts", misquote and mislead, and sometimes flat out lie. They write unprofessional articles and create deceiving videos to lead people astray. We were told by the Indiegogo staff that this happens to every successful campaign, regardless of the invention.
Haters are going to hate. Nothing we can do about that. One unscrupulous individual even took our viral Solar Freakin' Roadways video (by volunteer Michael Naphan) without our permission, and has used it to create another video, in which he has embedded deliberately misleading information. He is even making money by placing advertising on it to make a profit! (We could do the same, but we chose not to do so). And there are other journalists who have written articles with really irresponsibly misleading information.
False Claim: We picked a really stupid place to put solar panels
False Claim: Solar Roadways is going to cost $60 trillion dollars
False Claim: Asphalt roads are cheap and maintainable
False Claim: we can't afford to heat roads
alse Claim: Glass is softer than asphalt
False Claim: The shadow a single bird can take out an entire solar array - let alone a car!
False Claim: You can't see LEDs in direct sunlight
False Claim: We're attempting to use recycled colored glass to make new clear glass
We wonder about people who reflexively dismiss our concept without trying to understand it, or go on public forums to attack us. It's helps us to remember that there have always been people against change. For some it's just too scary. They want to just keep things the same. Perhaps they are the descendants of those who argued that the earth was flat, that we didn't need cars because horses worked just fine, told the Wright Brothers they were out of their minds, or insisted that we'd never reach the moon. Or perhaps they are the voices of larger entities who are now feeling threatened by the paradigm shift that is Solar Roadways.
pstarr wrote:There is a bunch of brilliance congregating around this project:jacques hughes
August 8, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I think they’re maybe missing a trick here. If not only solar energy, but kinetic energy from the traffic could be collected, it’d definitely be a winner. Possibly even self-regulating temperature-wise for when it snows? Imagine a road powered by traffic that can also power the traffic on it…
This has to make you wonder, huh? I just hope they stay off the road while it's being brainstormed. LOL
Have you thought about adding piezoelectric elements to your panels?
We're currently experimenting with piezoelectric elements and thermocouplers for our next design. Both of these devices can produce energy around the clock.
Efficiency – that is what it’s all about.
Electric vehicles are the way to go – most pundits agree on that. The area where they differ is how the electric energy, which turns the wheels, is getting to the motor(s).
Today, we already have several options: hybrid-electric, in a variety of combinations of engine and motor; battery-electric vehicles (BEV) with a limited range, and range-extended vehicles, where an engine–generator-combination supplies the electricity.
Efficiency became important during the last few decades, as the world learned how emissions and dwindling oil resources would affect life on our planet. Not only did vehicle manufacturers consider actual fuel consumption, they included production of vehicles and supply of components into the overall picture.
The phrase ‘Well to Wheel’ was coined, to include all systems and components that drive a vehicle down the road, literally.
Automotive industry went a step further: ‘End of Life’, the recycling of everything contained in a vehicle was included in the overall process; designing not only for the life of the car, but also for the ecological footprint after its useful existence.
And the Brusaws aren't the only people who think America's cruddy roads need a revolution. Tech giant Qualcomm, for example, has acquired a spinoff from the University of Aukland in New Zealand called Halo. Its product can be embedded in pavement to recharge electric vehicles wirelessly through induction, the same technology commonly used to charge electric toothbrushes. Qualcomm has already begun licensing Halo to automakers for prototype vehicles. A California Energy Commission study released this year recommends building a piezoelectric road demonstrator to gather more data on the feasibility of harvesting the vibrational energy of traffic passing over the road's suface. And the Intelligent Transportation Systems office of the US Department of Transportation is developing technologies to enable cars to communicate with each other as well as with traffic lights, sensors, and other elements of an envisioned smart road infrastructure.
Yet Solar Roadways might have an advantage over other high-tech road advancement that have been proposed, Levine says. Try to convince a state to redo an entire highway with solar panels rather than asphalt and you might get laughed out of the statehouse, especially before the technology has been proven. But a single town could deploy something like a Solar Roadway in a parking lot, which would not require connecting roads from multiple jurisdictions and all the legal wrangling that comes with that.
"Assuming the technological promise is as it appears, I think it might have a shot," Levine says of Solar Roadways. "And here's why: it's readily deployable at a small scale. Unlike...inductive charging in roadways, it's actually not dependent on what other people do, or what other agencies do, or what other municipalities do.
pstarr wrote:"a Solar Roadway in a parking lot" sends my me into a deep dark funk. I am sad I am alive in a world where such dumbness shares a place in my mind. The rest of my mind friends want to kill themselves.
The idea is to put unused roadway to good use (generating electricity) while also providing an electronic means for lane shifts, driver messages and other utilities. Bonus: solar roadways obviate the need for an electric grid by including a “Cable Corridor” right in the side of the roadway that eliminates the need for power lines running alongside it. And if outfitted with sensors as well the solar highway could transmit real time traffic data or other information of interest. The novel idea has been around for a few years now, bursting back into prominence this summer thanks to a new crowdfunding campaign to support further research and development that garnered $2.2 million before closing on June 20.
There are, however, a few challenges to overcome. What happens to the solar roads at night or on a cloudy day, when the PV is not generating electricity to power homes or cities? The Brusaws’ answer is to draw power from the grid, presumably from flexible generators, such as natural gas-burning combined cycle turbines or hydropower projects with the room to store water for a dark night (though Brusaw told me he expects wind turbines to fill this role back in 2009. He did not respond to repeated requests for an interview this time around.) As presently designed, the LEDs and heating elements are disconnected from the photovoltaics, meaning these elements require electricity from the grid 24/7. The heaters alone require more power than the available PV in the hexagon can supply.
Then there’s the materials challenge posed by the novel use of glass. This glass must be tempered, self-cleaning, and capable of transmitting light to the PV below under trying conditions, among other characteristics—a type of glass that does not yet exist. And that’s just the glass. There’s the additional challenges posed by putting together photovoltaics, LEDs and other components, not unlike a smartphone but one that will be run over by trucks.
Finally, there’s the problem that these 50 United States barely maintain asphalt roads, crumbling highways and unafe overpasses and bridges as it is. U.S. roads are essentially run to failure (i.e. as poorly maintained as possible) so how will any city, state or federal government pay any amount more to put in a solar road rather than paving with asphalt? It’s not just that the panel is more expensive than pavement, it’s the additional expense of maintenance, replacing the inevitable defects and generally tending a technological jumble subjected to the brutal pounding of daily traffic and weather, among other stresses.
Graeme wrote:a smartphone but one that will be run over by trucks.
The Finland-based newspaper website lltasonomat.fi reported that a local mine worker lost his Nokia Lumia 920. As it turned out, the phone had been buried in the ground by one of the 24-ton earth movers on the site.
The worker decided to call the phone and actually heard it ringing, even though it was buried under one and a half feet of earth. It took six men to get the Lumia 920 out of its burial place and while the screen was shattered, the phone could still send and receive calls.
lpetrich wrote:I agree with preferring canopies. My first thought is that there is a serious problem with keeping a "solar road" clean, because a dirty one's dirt would obstruct sunlight. It's much easier to clean a canopy, and a typical height should be well above most of the dirt. I also think that canopies would be cheaper than solar-road tiles, because they can be much more flimsy.
Alfred Tennyson wrote:We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
Heavy trucks and buses are responsible for a majority of pavement damage. Considering that a typical automobile weighs between 2,000 and 7,000 lbs (curb weight), even a fully loaded large passenger van will only generate about 0.003 ESALs while a fully loaded tractor-semi trailer can generate up to about 3 ESALs (depending upon pavement type, structure and terminal serviceability).
lpetrich wrote:Solar-road tiles also have the problem of surviving heavy vehicles traveling over them, like 18-wheeler semi-trailer trucks. I think that this problem is much more serious than what some of the tiles' advocates seem to think. Equivalent Single Axle Load | Pavement Interactive gives an approximate rule of thumb:
(road-damage amount) ~ (weight per axle)4
From that page:Heavy trucks and buses are responsible for a majority of pavement damage. Considering that a typical automobile weighs between 2,000 and 7,000 lbs (curb weight), even a fully loaded large passenger van will only generate about 0.003 ESALs while a fully loaded tractor-semi trailer can generate up to about 3 ESALs (depending upon pavement type, structure and terminal serviceability).
ETA: This road-damage factor means that it's not enough to test solar-road tiles with cars or small trucks. One has to test them with fully-loaded large trucks.
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