[Aaron]

laissez-faire economics... Keynesian fiscal policies...

Social Darwinism anyone?

Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA)

The core belief of free-marketeers is that people should be free to do what they want in life as long as they don't harm anyone else. They say that on the whole, society's problems and challenges are best dealt with by people and companies interacting with each other freely without interference from politicians and the State. This means that government action, whether through taxes, regulation or laws, should be kept to a minimum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_Economic_Affairs

There are "troubling similarities" between the US President's actions since taking office and those which in the 1930s sent the US and much of the world spiralling into the worst economic collapse in recorded history

"It is also not impossible that the US will experience the kind of economic collapse from first to Third World status experienced by Argentina under the national-socialist governance of Juan Peron."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6147211/Barack-Obama-accused-of-making-Depression-mistakes.html

[Sixstrings]

I voted guaranteed.. this is the inevitable end result of global free trade, folks. How, in God's name, did Americans ever get sold this bill of goods?

[seldom_seen]

It has already happened.

We're running off of inertia and some first world accoutrements still in place, so the message hasn't got through to everybody yet.

I listened to Gerald Celente over the weekend and he had a really good point...he said the current "recovery" is in fact a "cover up." The collapse has already happened and all the money printing and MSM happy talk is there to convince people it didn't.

[vision-master]

It has already happened.

We're running off of inertia and some first world accoutrements still in place, so the message hasn't got through to everybody yet.

I listened to Gerald Celente over the weekend and he had a really good point...he said the current "recovery" is in fact a "cover up." The collapse has already happened and all the money printing and MSM happy talk is there to convince people it didn't.

The 90's was borrowed (fake) wealth too, right?

[Sixstrings]

It has already happened.

We're running off of inertia and some first world accoutrements still in place, so the message hasn't got through to everybody yet.

I listened to Gerald Celente over the weekend and he had a really good point...he said the current "recovery" is in fact a "cover up." The collapse has already happened and all the money printing and MSM happy talk is there to convince people it didn't.

I think the myth of America is that every "Joe the plumber" can pull himself up by his bootstraps and become a McMillionaire. What people don't understand, though, is that the third world has its rich too, and they live pretty well. And that's right where we're headed, a situation where wealth is being concentrated in smaller and smaller numbers of people.

So it's not so much a death of the first world lifestyle we're dealing with as it is a death of the American middle class. So the good life will continue to roll on in the USA, it's just that you may be watching it on TV rather than participating in it.

[vision-master]

It has already happened.

We're running off of inertia and some first world accoutrements still in place, so the message hasn't got through to everybody yet.

I listened to Gerald Celente over the weekend and he had a really good point...he said the current "recovery" is in fact a "cover up." The collapse has already happened and all the money printing and MSM happy talk is there to convince people it didn't.

I think the myth of America is that every "Joe the plumber" can pull himself up by his bootstraps and become a McMillionaire. What people don't understand, though, is that the third world has its rich too, and they live pretty well. And that's right where we're headed, a situation where wealth is being concentrated in smaller and smaller numbers of people.

So it's not so much a death of the first world lifestyle we're dealing with as it is a death of the American middle class. So the good life will continue to roll on in the USA, it's just that you may be watching it on TV rather than participating in it.

Food for thought - Bob Marley

“Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction.”

[Aaron]

So it's not so much a death of the first world lifestyle we're dealing with as it is a death of the American middle class. So the good life will continue to roll on in the USA, it's just that you may be watching it on TV rather than participating in it.

Worthy of "Members Quotes" I think.

[Sixstrings]

So it's not so much a death of the first world lifestyle we're dealing with as it is a death of the American middle class. So the good life will continue to roll on in the USA, it's just that you may be watching it on TV rather than participating in it.

Worthy of "Members Quotes" I think.

Wow, Aaron, that's a real honor.

[Sixstrings]

America is full of such people. They feint strength and independence as a religion, even though they are suckling on the cheap petroleum teat and are caught in a drive train that grind them and their own down like hamburger meat. They wouldn't know what grace, balance, and beauty if it jumped off their fenders, smashed through the windshield and bit their faces off.

Amen, brother. Americans love to hate the French, but the fact is that the French have the right view on things. They know that the sum total of a man's life should not be the best interests of the Corporation; they value things like real vacation time, shorter work weeks (with full pay), universal healthcare.. they march in the streets to get and keep these rights, and they have no illusions that you can trust the Corporation to do right by you.

In short, the Republic of France is a government for the people.. the United States is a government for the Incorporated.

There have been a few publicized happiness studies over recent years. Every one of these studies show that in the capitalist societies, membership in the middle class is essential for happiness. A lot of people call this jealousy, just wanting what your neighbor has. But in fact, it's just human nature and not a character flaw. What people want most is a feeling of belonging, and a feeling of equality. When we don't have those things, we get downright miserable.

The middle class is continuing to disappear in this country, with no real signs of ever coming back. Manufacturing jobs are gone. GM is using its bailout money to open plants in China.. there's talk of Boeing moving ALL operations to China. Shockingly, a full 1/3 of all adults aged 35 and under live with their boomer parents because they simply can't afford the cost of rent. It's never been like this before, where adults can't strike out on their own and support themselves.

There's a story on AP right now about the real unemployment rate among working age Californians -- it's 40%. That's right, 40% not working.

The only real industries we have in this country anymore is healthcare and government. Now can someone please tell me how a nation can sustain itself on nothing but government, healthcare, and McDonalds? Now yeah, I know America is still the hotbed of innovation. But the problem is it's just that, the hotbed -- once they begin to mature, industries like tech and green jobs just get shipped right over to Asia to take advantage of the lower wages.

And don't think for a second that eventually this wage thing will just level out worldwide, because it won't. China and India alone have a billion plus people each.. what's our pop, 330 million? If we continue down this road of totally free worldwide trade, most Americans will be swallowed into rank poverty every bit as bad as rural China.

You see, free trade was a good idea back when that meant things made here were traded for things made abroad. It's not that way anymore, not even with freaking software (India). Heck, thanks to the Internet an Indian radiologist can review your x-rays now, no need to pay an American radiologist.

Instead of actually TRADING things with other countries, all we do now is buy their stuff and then borrow money from them so we can afford to buy more of their stuff. It's a crazy and unsustainable state of affairs, and everyone knows it.

Ok, /rant off

[Daphne64]

It's my pet theory that the comparative advantage theory of trade appeared to work while we (the US) had a finance and housing bubble - people that lost their manufacturing jobs were able to find some work and generally stay off welfare. That is no longer the case. With economics as corrupt as it is, who knows how long it will be before the holes in the theory are generally accepted.

Our manufacturing base will come back when the US's credit is refused - which is to say the dollar is destroyed. Unfortunately, the new manufacturing jobs will be at best the equivalent of today's minimum wage jobs. At worst they will be little better than China's manufacturing jobs.

There's going to be a whole lotta hurting going on.

Here's a semi-related link on inflation, taxation and impoverishment of the masses in ancient Rome. Interesting read.

http://mises.org/story/3663

[Sixstrings]

Here's a good graph illustrating everything I've been trying to say:



See how a*s-backwards everything's gotten? Look at the bar for 1960, that sure explains how a working man could buy a home with a few years salary. Back then, the bottom 90% held around 63% of wealth (and really, was that so communist and radical? how much do the rich need, is having 40% of the nation's wealth not enough?).

Now look at where we are today, the '02-07 bar graph.. it's right back where it was in the stone age, 1923. Of all the indicators pointing to Depression, this graph really sticks out to me.. it's a dead-on copy of the pre Great Depression situation, and not only that it's actually WORSE.

Here's the link to the article with the graph:
Top 1 Percent of Americans Reaped Two-Thirds of Income Gains in Last Economic Expansion
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908

[Tyler_JC]

^Misleading chart.

It's measuring income GAINS, not total income.



There is still a widening of income/wealth disparity but it's not nearly as severe as your chart would indicate.

The incomes of the top 1% have increased from 10% to 20% of total income while the share going to the bottom 90% has fallen from 65% to 50% since the peak of equality in the mid 1970s.

I'd argue a fair amount of this gap is the result of the stock/housing (read: inflation) bubbles of the past 25 years. Most of the gains from those bubbles went to the rich while the poor merely saw a higher cost of living and stagnant wages.

[GHung]

Just a thang here, y'all: 15 years ago I moved to the "family homestead" in the mountains to take care of my parents. Left a great job. My folks passed. I built a passive/ active (off grid) solar home on the land they left me. Started gardening.
All of my old friends made jokes about my "return to nature". They tolerated my use of words like "unsustainable", "peak oil", and "over consumption" with humor or scorn. In the past year, a lot of these same people have "just stopped by" after being "just too busy" for years. The point of this is that, without exception, they all say how great we're doing, and when the BIG ONE comes, they're coming here! Not one has had the honesty to say "we're scared and what can we do?" My former friends are terrified but can't admit it.
How many of you are in the same situation (when the shit hits the fan, "I'm going to Dude's").

Will the Ants decide to just shoot the Grasshopper?

[jupiters_release]

It has already happened.

We're running off of inertia and some first world accoutrements still in place, so the message hasn't got through to everybody yet.

I listened to Gerald Celente over the weekend and he had a really good point...he said the current "recovery" is in fact a "cover up." The collapse has already happened and all the money printing and MSM happy talk is there to convince people it didn't.

I think the myth of America is that every "Joe the plumber" can pull himself up by his bootstraps and become a McMillionaire. What people don't understand, though, is that the third world has its rich too, and they live pretty well. And that's right where we're headed, a situation where wealth is being concentrated in smaller and smaller numbers of people.

So it's not so much a death of the first world lifestyle we're dealing with as it is a death of the American middle class. So the good life will continue to roll on in the USA, it's just that you may be watching it on TV rather than participating in it.

And so 'Joe the plumber' is a class traitor pitted (by the corporate media and the superrich that pull the strings) against is natural friends, colleagues and community members. He is taught to hate unions and collectives, the very organizations that would change the rules and give him a chance at education, health, happiness, and security. He believes the lies of the masters tell (go it alone, be tough, screw your neighbors, fear, fear, fear) and repeats their lies as his own.

America is full of such people. They feint strength and independence as a religion, even though they are suckling on the cheap petroleum teat and are caught in a drive train that grind them and their own down like hamburger meat. They wouldn't know what grace, balance, and beauty if it jumped off their fenders, smashed through the windshield and bit their faces off.

Wealth disparity is now at an all time high, greater than during the Great Depression. This is the exact cause of our own personal unhappiness. It is the tension between images of the rich and super rich pounded home 24/7 by the media that cause stress and unhappiness, unhealth and self-destructive behavior. All of America's problems: it's gutted cities, isolated towns, endless traffic jams and loneliness are all designed by the wealthy to keep them safe and you stuck.

Great inequality is the scourge of modern societies. We provide the evidence on each of eleven different health and social problems: physical health, mental health, drug abuse, education, imprisonment, obesity, social mobility, trust and community life, violence, teenage births, and child well-being. For all eleven of these health and social problems, outcomes are very substantially worse in more unequal societies.

Link

The only way to get out of the rat race is to take advantage directly or indirectly of other rats on the treadmill, so no one is ever apart from the neurosis. ~ Thou art that.

One cannot not be compassionate to the neurotic, we know not our own neurosis. Our culturally acquired ideation of the Self as ground of creation requires us to be Contracted, yet the true origin, the Not-Self, is only available through absolute Decontraction. Thought(conventional intelligence) itself can never be free because it can exist only in the Contracted. True intelligence is awareness not bound by locality, connection with the Decontracted Unknown gives access to non-locality.

[vision-master]

Just a thang here, y'all: 15 years ago I moved to the "family homestead" in the mountains to take care of my parents. Left a great job. My folks passed. I built a passive/ active (off grid) solar home on the land they left me. Started gardening.
All of my old friends made jokes about my "return to nature". They tolerated my use of words like "unsustainable", "peak oil", and "over consumption" with humor or scorn. In the past year, a lot of these same people have "just stopped by" after being "just too busy" for years. The point of this is that, without exception, they all say how great we're doing, and when the BIG ONE comes, they're coming here! Not one has had the honesty to say "we're scared and what can we do?" My former friends are terrified but can't admit it.
How many of you are in the same situation (when the shit hits the fan, "I'm going to Dude's").

Will the Ants decide to just shoot the Grasshopper?

I'm going to the brothers place in the great north woods.

[AgentR]

Americans love to hate the French, but the fact is that the French have the right view on things. They know that the sum total of a man's life should not be the best interests of the Corporation; they value things like real vacation time, shorter work weeks (with full pay), universal healthcare.. they march in the streets to get and keep these rights, and they have no illusions that you can trust the Corporation to do right by you.

France is a very interesting country; the funniest thing is how people like to select the PARTS of French life as models, but ignore the rest. So lefties will speak at length of workers rights, protests, etc; while remaining silent on government funding of religious private schools or extensive reliance upon nuclear power. Industrialists looking to build new nuclear plants will lament how far ahead France is, but suggest a French style working environment and they'd feint.

France works because it places people ahead of ideology.

If you latch onto a fragment, because it suits your ideology and hope to emulate it, without emulating the core, it will fail, epically.

[evilgenius]

I don't know if I buy any of the conspiratorial Illuminati talk, but there are clearly reasons for the growth of the wealth distribution discrepancy. I don't think I am just clutching at straws to blame campaign finance laws for a large percentage of it. The influence of corporate money in political life is absurd in the United States. You can't allow sweeping changes to job classification (who is eligible for overtime?) and disembowel worker's rights to organize and not get at least part of what we have gotten.

Beyond this there are loads of cultural issues. Why is it that your average American working with a bunch of other average Americans to do a quite average job doesn't want to organize and angle for the best pay and benefits in an association with his/her peers? Why is it so easy to criticize someone in a position of authority rather than offer alternative suggestions? Has America become a nation of self-indulgent whiners? Was it ever not?

Maybe the only answer is to reform the capitalist notion of distribution of income (corporate profits). That might be the only place to begin that makes sense since we have already allowed corporations to lobby for changes to the legal structure that by far transgress the sanctity of what it means to be a human being.

[evilgenius]

It would be a mistake to think I am talking about increasing taxes by the way. I am getting at focusing on who are the owners of corporations, therefore in whose best interests should they be run? Shareholding has at its basis a kernel of democracy. How is it that a small group of managers can run almost every company in the US in such a dictatorial fashion that does not represent the best interests of shareholders? It is about time that a shareholder became defined as an average person and not only someone that would own shares for the same short-term reasons that most members of management do.

[Sixstrings]

Americans love to hate the French, but the fact is that the French have the right view on things. They know that the sum total of a man's life should not be the best interests of the Corporation; they value things like real vacation time, shorter work weeks (with full pay), universal healthcare.. they march in the streets to get and keep these rights, and they have no illusions that you can trust the Corporation to do right by you.

France is a very interesting country; the funniest thing is how people like to select the PARTS of French life as models, but ignore the rest. So lefties will speak at length of workers rights, protests, etc; while remaining silent on government funding of religious private schools or extensive reliance upon nuclear power. Industrialists looking to build new nuclear plants will lament how far ahead France is, but suggest a French style working environment and they'd feint.

France works because it places people ahead of ideology.

If you latch onto a fragment, because it suits your ideology and hope to emulate it, without emulating the core, it will fail, epically.

Well of course we can't "become France," nor would we want to. They have cultural issues unique to them. For one thing, in this anglo-dominated world, it's a very big deal to them to protect all things French. It's understandable, they just don't want to lose their language and culture in a sea of McDonalds and Kentucky Fried Chickens. So I'm not surprised if they fund Catholic organizations.. French culture and Catholicism are very much one and the same (though in practice, they're very enlightened.. you won't find any Creation Museums over there).

As for nuclear power, it was a necessity whether they liked it or not. They have no coal. DeGaulle was the president who set them down the nuclear path; in his view, energy independence (at least with electricity) was vital to their future.

All in all, culture and national experience is an integral part of how all societies operate. I think the reason the French are so quick to march against the government and fight for their rights can be traced back to their Revolution. In the USA, we essentially fought a distant and foreign power. In France, they revolted against their own government. That's a breaking point that Americans have never reached, not even the Confederate South (they considered themselves Southerners in the first place and yankees were the foreign oppressors). Whereas the French people actually revolted against what was within them, not against oppression from without.

Luckily for them, they found their way to democratic government. In the modern era, popular uprisings have lead to communist dictatorial rule (a fate infinitely worse than robber baron capitalism).