[gandolf]

This just dosnt seem fair.

This time last year I was working full time and struggling to pay the bills.

Then things looked up

I got made redundant, Got paid out money... Goverment kept banking money in my account ( Who says Australia isnt the land of the great) got a part time job doing bugger all (, got another part time doing even less then to top it got a third part time job... all cash. )

So I can say I have lived the Australian dream. Working a three day week and four day weekend (and earning more than when I was fully employed). Unfortunatly now that the football season is finishing (was a result of two off my jobs) I need to look for a more permanent job and yes alas I start on tuesday back to 5 days a week....

At leasty I have $50,000 in the bank and now back to full time work.

I say bring on the next recession.

[patience]

Gandolf,

Glad it has worked for you. Can't say the same here. Manufacturing was the mainstay in Indiana, and most of the midwestern US. It's mostly gone now, with liquidation auctions each week. For the past couple years, the auctions were mostly peripheral businesses--machine shops, and a few suppliers. It has moved up the chain now to machine dealers and factories this year. Very little left here. When the unemployment benefits run out, TS will HTF. UE now runs about 9 to 10% official here, but is actually around 20%, counting those whose benefits have run out, or have taken very poor part time jobs. (If you are working 10 hours/week @ minimum wage, you are "fully employed", per the govt.)

Agriculture was the beginning of our State, and is about all that is left, although seriously eroded by all the modern govt and corporate means. Result is, my farm repair shop income is about 30% of last year. Zero business from industry. I still get some consumer business, but it is all low end stuff, and aimed at either gardening or wood stoves for heating homes. Spending for hobbies and home improvement is finished. It don't look good from here.

[thor]

This just doesn't seem fair.

Who said life is fair, mate? I just got fired today. Just playing my part in this god d**n recession.

[Sixstrings]

This just doesn't seem fair.

Who said life is fair, mate? I just got fired today. Just playing my part in this god d**n recession.

What kind of support is available to you in the Netherlands?

In my state in the US, the maximum unemployment comp is $275 per week (good luck paying your bills with that). If you want to keep your employer's healthcare for a limited period of time, expect to pay anywhere from $450 to $850 per month.

[drew]

That sucks everyone. There is big time fear at my work that all the drivers are going to lose their jobs, me included. We have already lost ~30 guys last month and are due to lose another 50 in November. Many of the 50 left (I'm 40th) expect that they'll just axe us too, either in Nov, or soon after. Unemployment will pay about 450 a week which won't even cover my weekly bills.

Drew

[shortonsense]

It don't look good from here.

Fortunately, Americans are not required to stay stuck in a bad state, assuming your state is really bad and you aren't just dependent on one of those industries which is getting clobbered.

For example, from this map,

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysuppleme ... /index.htm

moving south and east might not be a bad idea to avoid foreclosure related issues, West looks good as well, excluding the states which heavily participated in the fantasy land real estate value game ( Nevada, California and Arizona showing up prominently).

Heres an even cooler map.

http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... ilar-gdps/

apparently Indiana's GDP is as good as Denmark. Not bad! The Great Depression has come and is nearly gone and you guys are still living it up as well as the Danes!! Pitty Illinois though...Mexico!

[JJ]

yeah, there's a lot of tension at work, guy threw a chair at me today, said I was full of sh&t and he's never heard me say anything good about the economy. big drama.

[Armageddon]

yeah, there's a lot of tension at work, guy threw a chair at me today, said I was full of sh&t and he's never heard me say anything good about the economy. big drama.

I would have taken him outside and whooped him. Asshats like him need to be delt with.

[VZR1800]

yeah, there's a lot of tension at work, guy threw a chair at me today, said I was full of sh&t and he's never heard me say anything good about the economy. big drama.

After the "chair-throwing" routine, I expect he got fired?
In any company I have worked for, that would be the end result.
Throwing a chair is as good as throwing a fist.
Buh-Bye!

[shortonsense]

yeah, there's a lot of tension at work, guy threw a chair at me today, said I was full of sh&t and he's never heard me say anything good about the economy. big drama.

I would have taken him outside and whooped him. Asshats like him need to be delt with.

I'm surprised that this kind of behavior in the modern workplace didn't get someone at least arrested, if for no other reason than to cover any liability on the companies part.

[blukatzen]

It wouldn't suprise me if that was the *boss* who threw the chair. I've seen a number of bosses act like that in my life. I left their employ promptly, as there is no way to reckon with those idiots.

Blu

[SeaGypsy]

Time limited dole has to be one of the biggest problems in the USA right now? Hasn't the Gov had to extend cut offs twice already?
The model in Australia says that as long as you can prove you are trying to find a job you will get the benefits; this seems like a fairer way to pay back taxes than handing trillions to the banks hoping they might fix things?

[Sixstrings]

Time limited dole has to be one of the biggest problems in the USA right now? Hasn't the Gov had to extend cut offs twice already?
The model in Australia says that as long as you can prove you are trying to find a job you will get the benefits; this seems like a fairer way to pay back taxes than handing trillions to the banks hoping they might fix things?

Yeah, they've extended the cut offs and there's some talk of another extension. Usually, the cap in my state is 26 weeks.

The model in my state says that if you're unemployed, too bad so sad screw you this is a pro-business Republican state.

The dirtiest trick in Florida is that it's actually hard to get unemployment comp.. you see, rather than lay you off a lot of companies will just find a reason to fire you. In Florida, you're ineligible to collect unemployment if you were fired "with cause." It can be anything, from tardiness to making a mistake, to using too many paper clips. I know a former cement truck driver who was fired for hitting a curb.. he was denied unemployment because he "disobeyed the company rule to not have accidents."

Once denied, you can file for a an appeal, and a few weeks later a magistrate will do a hearing over the phone with you and your employer's rep. Some get approved at this point. If not, I think there may be another level of appeal.

Also like much of the South, Florida is a non-union "right to work" state. They call it "right to work" but it really means "right to fire" for any reason at any time without any notice or severance required.

Honestly, i think it may be for the best that most of this state will sink beneath the ocean in about 200 hundred years.

[SeaGypsy]

In Australia the maximum supension of initial payment is 6 weeks for willfull failure at work; such as "Got fired for throwing a chair at his boss."
Failure to show up and make a reasonable effort at interview can result in suspension for 6 weeks or 12 weeks for subsequent offenses.
To sign on one must provide a separation certificate with the employer's version of why employment has been terminated.
Equal weight is given to the claimant's version as to the employer's; rightfully so as any dispute here is civil under common law.

[MarkJ]

With the next 13 week extension, workers in some states will receive 92 weeks of funemployment benefits.

[JJ]

yeah, there's a lot of tension at work, guy threw a chair at me today, said I was full of sh&t and he's never heard me say anything good about the economy. big drama.

I would have taken him outside and whooped him. Asshats like him need to be delt with.

I'm surprised that this kind of behavior in the modern workplace didn't get someone at least arrested, if for no other reason than to cover any liability on the companies part.

the manager called us into his office and told us to sit down, then turned on Larry and dressed his down. Never said a word to me, then after he left said "don't antagonize him, he's got something wrong with him..." There were a lot of people present when it happened, so i don't feel like I have to defend myself...

[TreeFarmer]

Time limited dole has to be one of the biggest problems in the USA right now? Hasn't the Gov had to extend cut offs twice already?
The model in Australia says that as long as you can prove you are trying to find a job you will get the benefits; this seems like a fairer way to pay back taxes than handing trillions to the banks hoping they might fix things?

Yeah, they've extended the cut offs and there's some talk of another extension. Usually, the cap in my state is 26 weeks.

The model in my state says that if you're unemployed, too bad so sad screw you this is a pro-business Republican state.

The dirtiest trick in Florida is that it's actually hard to get unemployment comp.. you see, rather than lay you off a lot of companies will just find a reason to fire you. In Florida, you're ineligible to collect unemployment if you were fired "with cause." It can be anything, from tardiness to making a mistake, to using too many paper clips. I know a former cement truck driver who was fired for hitting a curb.. he was denied unemployment because he "disobeyed the company rule to not have accidents."

Once denied, you can file for a an appeal, and a few weeks later a magistrate will do a hearing over the phone with you and your employer's rep. Some get approved at this point. If not, I think there may be another level of appeal.

Also like much of the South, Florida is a non-union "right to work" state. They call it "right to work" but it really means "right to fire" for any reason at any time without any notice or severance required.

Honestly, i think it may be for the best that most of this state will sink beneath the ocean in about 200 hundred years.

I believe what you are referring to is called "employment at will", meaning that it is easy to terminate somone. "Right to work" is something that applies with respect to unions, in right to work states you do not have to join the union or participate with the union. In Pennsylvania where I live you are forced to pay almost full union dues even if you don't join the union.


TF

[patience]

shortonsense said:
"The Great Depression has come and is nearly gone and you guys are still living it up as well as the Danes!!"

You REALLY believe it is about over? Good luck with that. I'll get back to you next year and see how we are doing then.

Depends on where you are within any given state whether you share in the average conditions. As I once heard about averages, if you have one foot on a block of ice, and the other foot in a campfire, on the AVERAGE, you are comfortable. Our area is a poverty pocket, historically, but has the advantage of having a stable agricultural base that is diversified, and thus not as vulnerable to market swings in a single commodity as the corn belt in the middle of the state. Overall, Indiana's economics are presently being held somewhat above national average by the retail sector and agriculture (best I can figure out), but retail and service businesses are barely surviving. The next leg down, as more layoffs hit, unemployment runs out for more people, and more foreclosures occur with the resultant tighening in credit, retail and service businesses will be hit harder. Many that are on the edge now, will fail, and cause more layoffs. I expect UE, (the U6 now at around 20% here) to reach 25%+ next year, with some pockets higher, some lower.

We chose to stay where we are because of the tradition of self reliance in the area. Many of the locals know how to cope with hard times, and are already reverting to old ways--lots of gardens, woodstoves, clotheslines, backyard livestock, and home enterprises going on. They are dug in for the long haul, here, as we are, also. We will be okay. Wife and I are retired, with a small shop business, repairing farm and garden stuff, and whatever. We can live on near nothing for income. Not so in the cities where we once lived. I don't have a job, I made one for myself, so no worries about it going away. It would not be a good decision to move elsewhere.

[vision-master]

No debt and low property taxes help, eh.

[shortonsense]

shortonsense said:
"The Great Depression has come and is nearly gone and you guys are still living it up as well as the Danes!!"

You REALLY believe it is about over? Good luck with that. I'll get back to you next year and see how we are doing then.

Not being an economist specializing in calling the beginnings and ends of recessions, I am relying on the expertise of others. My reference was to THE expert on the topic. Double dip recessions are always a possibility.

Depends on where you are within any given state whether you share in the average conditions. As I once heard about averages, if you have one foot on a block of ice, and the other foot in a campfire, on the AVERAGE, you are comfortable.

I am well aware of the issues related to using some measures of central tendency as the singular way to describe a thing with a wide range of actual outcomes.Which is why I provided some links to maps showing that the world might be different in other states, and noted that movement in America is not restricted in any way that I am aware of...voting with ones feet is a time honored tradition in this country.

We chose to stay where we are because of the tradition of self reliance in the area.

There you go. You have made a clear decision to stay where you are for specific reasons. Enjoy, but if Indiana remains as a poverty pocket while the rest of the country recovers, then thats what you get. I've got a brother in law like that, lives in a crap house in a crap area because he doesn't want to double his income by moving to North Carolina where his skills are needed and he would get hired in a minute and he has family. Nope....he can keep backyard chickens where he is, and thats what matters, so he stays in the crap area.

We will be okay. Wife and I are retired, with a small shop business, repairing farm and garden stuff, and whatever. We can live on near nothing for income. Not so in the cities where we once lived. I don't have a job, I made one for myself, so no worries about it going away. It would not be a good decision to move elsewhere.

Sounds good. I've always thought that southern Indiana was quite a nice place, wooded, low population density, decent rainfall. Would be decent Doomstead country if Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia, weren't so close by.