[thuja]

Grow some brains!!!

This is a very serious issue that will effect every living person on the planet. And yet I have to read post after post by some survivalist or Insta-TEOTWAKIn concerning this issue. At least some of the noise has died down since the financial collapse of late 08. But still, where is the discerning analysis with real life discussions of implications? Instead I have had to read about doomsteads, guns, zombies and die-off in the next 5 years. Seriously, I think in a poll conducted a while back at least half of you believed that 5 billion people would die in the next 10 years. Puh--------leaze!

How about some thoughtful analysis along the lines of Hirsch and Orlov showing up? How about instead of hysterical rantings about an imminent apocalyptic world where we no longer need jobs or money, we talk about the real world effect of Peak Oil and how this affects Joe Citizen.

In other words, INsta-doomers, my gloves are off. Yes I will continue to brandish my swords against Cornies, but to the uber-doomers who are making a mockery of this issue- Begone! A vast sea of people need to have a comprehensive understanding of this issue...and stupid Green Rambo fantasies just won't cut it.

If OIl hits 125 to 150 again and I have to put up with this nonsense again I will go on on a rampage. I will join the Cornies in ridiculing you...

Get a grip...

[Dr. Ofellati]

"If" oil hits 150 again? You have doubt. A shame.

"How about instead of hysterical rantings . . ."

Was your post, above, neither a rant nor hysterical?

When you tell nonbelievers that peakoil is coming, are you not the hysterical raver?

Those who drive more slowly than us are idiots and those who drive faster are maniacs.

That's your point, right?

[Nefarious]

Good first post there "Doc". Welcome to the forum

[eastbay]

Welcome aboard Doc.

Thuja, questioning and discussing how to deal on a personal level with peak oil's much anticipated rampage is a natural and logical process. Fighting it is fighting Mother Nature.

[shortonsense]

How about some thoughtful analysis along the lines of Hirsch and Orlov showing up? How about instead of hysterical rantings about an imminent apocalyptic world where we no longer need jobs or money, we talk about the real world effect of Peak Oil and how this affects Joe Citizen.

You appear surprised?

In other words, INsta-doomers, my gloves are off. Yes I will continue to brandish my swords against Cornies, but to the uber-doomers who are making a mockery of this issue- Begone! A vast sea of people need to have a comprehensive understanding of this issue...and stupid Green Rambo fantasies just won't cut it.

Why not? What if the entire intellectual PURPOSE of these rambo-Doomers is just to find the excuse to kick off their favorite fantasy? Peak oil was good....until it happened and suddenly they needed something else to trigger their fantasies? One of two things would be the natural result...either they move on to something else, climate change, Obama (neither of which really has the instant kick they attributed to peak oil), or #2 they recycle peak oil, double clutch, pretend its going to happen again, continue as normal.

Those worried about actual resource depletion issues are certainly in the minority of such groups, groupthink is actually codified and enforced at some of the survivalist based groups. Its quite a surprising position to take if anyone knows the least bit about science, or even the history of resource depletion issues in general. For all intensive purposes, its nearly religious in nature, "Thou shalt not question whatever peak oil fantasy deposited in front of you or else face expulsion from the Order". Excommunication.

Here's the most interesting quote from one of "those" places:

"There have been numerous articles posted lately linking MSM articles that dispute PO. This is in violation of the rules of this board. Even though people want to argue the articles are wrong, the board rules clearly state this is not a topic of debate. So, I will begin deleting all topics that violate this rule. For all of us PO believers, these MSM articles contain glaring omissions in fact or in understanding. They will be deleted. The subject is not open to debate."

How dare someone think, articulate, reference or mention anything which questions the Sacraments? How dare anyone question the fearless leader and his PO call from 2000/2001? All such evidence must be erased from the eyes of the Faithful, lest they think for themselves. The PO Believers Reign Uncontested!!

My suspicion is that religions ( or kook based zealotry in general ) which is alleged based on observable facts and phenomena can really lose memberships when the ones capable of thinking actually do so, compare reality to what was supposed to happen, or, in this case, HORROR OF HORRORS! read a MSM article from god forbid someone who actually has some experience in the industry in question and is in a direct position to contradict one of the Sacraments or another.

If OIl hits 125 to 150 again and I have to put up with this nonsense again I will go on on a rampage. I will join the Cornies in ridiculing you...
Get a grip...

Don't be mean to them.....there is a chance that under fear of Excommunication from the Faithful Order of PO Believers they are simply buying into groupthink because...well...its easier than the alternative.

[threadbear]

Hi Thuga, Agreed. The survivalists forget that the average citizen is urban, can't afford a doomstead, and has to make preps based on contingencies that have to change as we progress down a road that vanishes into the mists of the future. It's wise to do some basic prep and then wait and see what happens.

An ability to get along with others through the local community and having strong local friendships is the best survival skill and one that many of the survivalists will struggle with. Purchasing arms to protect yourself or family, can be a great and necessary practical solution. It concerns me though, when it's the first attitude an individual adopts in a stressful social situation. They often seem to be expressing some of the alienation and sour grapes that helped create the various, political, social and cultural problems, in the first place.

Though Peak oil theory is cathartic, useful, and will be revolutionary, I feel peak oil involvement provides a venue for a symptom set for some people, that would be best addressed through getting out more, networking in the real world, with real people and working on deep bitterness rooted in the individual's psyche.

Is this a part of what you are trying to express, too?

[Pops]

How about some thoughtful analysis along the lines of Hirsch and Orlov showing up? How about instead of hysterical rantings about an imminent apocalyptic world where we no longer need jobs or money, we talk about the real world effect of Peak Oil and how this affects Joe Citizen.

Yea, how about it?

Write up your thesis, start the thread, set your rules and we'll make sure they're followed.

[mos6507]

getting out more, networking in the real world, with real people and working on deep bitterness rooted in the individual's psyche.

So well said. And I see so much of myself in this diagnosis. I tried to get the hell away from worldsends like this, went to the transition training, and look where I've wound up? Back in the middle of wingnut central. Two steps forward, one step back. I'm spending all my free time interacting here instead of, I dunno, trying to have a life while I still can.

[shortonsense]

How about some thoughtful analysis along the lines of Hirsch and Orlov showing up? How about instead of hysterical rantings about an imminent apocalyptic world where we no longer need jobs or money, we talk about the real world effect of Peak Oil and how this affects Joe Citizen.

Yea, how about it?

Write up your thesis, start the thread, set your rules and we'll make sure they're followed.

Gotta say, +1 on how well they've done it for me so far.

Set to it thuja, I'd be more than happy to join in.

Certainly better than the censorship which is required to keep the faithful in line elsewhere.

[threadbear]

getting out more, networking in the real world, with real people and working on deep bitterness rooted in the individual's psyche.

So well said. And I see so much of myself in this diagnosis. I tried to get the hell away from worldsends like this, went to the transition training, and look where I've wound up? Back in the middle of wingnut central. Two steps forward, one step back. I'm spending all my free time interacting here instead of, I dunno, trying to have a life while I still can.

Would you describe yourself as somewhat introverted?

[dorlomin]

Despair is easy and the solice of believing you can insultate yourself with your foreknowledge is seductive.

[Plantagenet]

.... thoughtful analysis ...

Karl Marx noted that history tends to occur twice...the first time as tragedy, the second as farce.

In terms of peak oil, we've just had the tragedy...oil hit $150, the credit markets and banks took a big hit, the federal deficit exploded and the dollar started to crash, and millions of people lost their homes and 7 million people lost their jobs in the US (so far).

The next time will be farce....oil has already climbed back past $80, and when oil goes higher the whole economic collapse scenario will return, with an added farcial component of price controls, White House denunciations of evil speculators, and stimulus bills promising impossibly rapid conversion to electrical cars and electrical battery powered airplanes and ocean freighters.

[shortonsense]

The next time will be farce....oil has already climbed back past $80, and when oil goes higher the whole economic collapse scenario will return, with an added farcial component of price controls, White House denunciations of evil speculators, and stimulus bills promising impossibly rapid conversion to electrical cars and electrical battery powered airplanes and ocean freighters.

Planet, you strike me as a reasonably intelligent poster. Why would you go from a scenario of expensive gasoline or crude, comparable to $150/bbl, to nonsense like electrically powered ocean freighters?

JD has made some extremely valid calculations as to the efficiency of using crude for large scale transport and why that is much better than little running around town type nonsense, which is extremely inefficient. Whether its rail or transoceanic shipping, they will be using diesel while the rest of us run around with our government encouraged electrics, in part because the cost per ton/mile is so low for the heavy haulers, even if crude was $300/bbl.

And with some trillion barrels in stated reserves ( and plenty more without even breaking a sweat ), we've got plenty to see us through whatever particular conversion scenario the markets, or the government, wants to decide is the "best" way to convert.

So the question is, with Thuja's original comment in mind, why the instantaneous jump to what we all know are really nothing but a sarcastic strawman?

[mos6507]

And with some trillion barrels in stated reserves ( and plenty more without even breaking a sweat ), we've got plenty to see us through whatever particular conversion scenario the markets, or the government, wants to decide is the "best" way to convert.

Oh, god. The P word again.

[shortonsense]

And with some trillion barrels in stated reserves ( and plenty more without even breaking a sweat ), we've got plenty to see us through whatever particular conversion scenario the markets, or the government, wants to decide is the "best" way to convert.

Oh, god. The P word again.

Do you realize how many zero's are in a TRILLION? It certainly seems like PLENTY is a reasonable way to quantify that answer.

[Nano]

Thuja, this is exactly the reason i decided way back to not get publicly involved with 'the peak oil community'. The issue attracts too many 'crazys and lazys'. It can also be readily used to promote (enviro)fascist or -communist agenda's.

[shortonsense]

Thuja, this is exactly the reason i decided way back to not get publicly involved with 'the peak oil community'. The issue attracts too many 'crazys and lazys'. It can also be readily used to promote (enviro)fascist or -communist agenda's.

True dat.

[Dr. Ofellati]

The next time will be farce....oil has already climbed back past $80, and when oil goes higher the whole economic collapse scenario will return, with an added farcial component of price controls, White House denunciations of evil speculators, and stimulus bills promising impossibly rapid conversion to electrical cars and electrical battery powered airplanes and ocean freighters.

That's really good. Well said, and I agree with your predictions..

[vtsnowedin]

Seriously, I think in a poll conducted a while back at least half of you believed that 5 billion people would die in the next 10 years. Puh--------leaze!

...

And on what basis do you dismiss that possibility?
Is not the task of feeding nine billion people a daunting one?
Will not peak oil make it that much harder to achieve? Can we feed the worlds population on algae oil and solar power?