[frankthetank]

Already happening...this is a sign, right? The roads around here are getting so bad that sometimes i think they'd be better if they would just gravel them.

PORTLAND, Maine - Ever since the invention of the automobile, paved roads have meant progress. Now some cash-strapped towns and counties are finding progress too expensive, and they are tearing up battered roads and putting down gravel.

The high price of pavement and the sour economy have driven municipalities in states such as Michigan, Pennsylvania, Indiana and Vermont to roll up the asphalt — a mile here, a few miles there, mostly on back roads — rather than repave.

"Do we really need to keep getting fancier? This is also about quality of life," said Richard Beal, a selectman in the town of Cranberry Isles, Maine, population 118, which got its first paved roads in 1960s but is considering ripping some of them up rather than spend the $500,000 or so he said is needed next year to fix them.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34469490/ns/us_news-life/

[eastbay]

I've never seen this. Does this mean the affected roads are simply left to decompose? Or is the old asphalt dug up and put somewhere?

[kpeavey]

I've been to the Cranberry Isles. Great Cranberry Isle has 2 roads, maybe 6 miles total. Ferry service 4 times/day brings people and what they can carry, with a vehicle ferry twice on Wednesday. The vehicle ferry makes it possible for service vehicles such as oil deliveries, the cable guy, cargo deliveries, transport of personal vehicles, and road crew vehicles. There are a few vehicles on the island. License plates are not required. There is no store, no post office, just homes and the dock. If the place had no roads, I think it would be a better place.

Roads everywhere have gotten out of hand. Used to be a road had a yellow line down the middle, maybe a sign every few miles, and some cable guard rail beside steep cliffs. A 2nd line was added. Signs for turns in the road ahead, striped signs for sharper turns, white lines on both sides og the outside of the road, lanes widened, shoulders widened, stop signs added, they even added signs that tell you there is a stop sign ahead. They have signs that tell you there is a hill, just in case you can't figure it out. They added rumble strips between the Stop Sign Ahead and Stop Sign. Painted big STOP letters on the road, right beside the Speed Limit 55 sign. I know of a place that has a 25 MPH speed limit on one side of the road, 30 MPH on the other side of the road. Its in White Springs, FL-a speed trap town, where the speed limit changes no less than 16 times over 3 miles, 17 times during school hours. Cable guard rail was replaced with galvanized steel, then concrete. The right side of the roads were grooved with rumble strips to wake up errant drivers. The latest trend is all those square low profile reflectors down the middle of the road. I've even seen 2 rows of these. Someone is making a fortune selling the things.

Road complexity has increased, along with the cost of maintenance. A couple of weeks ago I saw a DOT truck parked near a road sign so a worker could wash the sign. This took 2 people, 1 was driving.

I would venture a guess that the funds spent on signage and improvements could probably have paid for all the bridge repairs needed in this country. Ambulance chasing lawyers have made it a priority that the state and county transportation departments cover their arses, bridges be damned. The first roads that should be torn up and turned into gravel should be those in front of attorney's homes. Part of the problem is administrators and road planners who never stopped adding to the existing road system because they had to justify the existence of their position and the importance of their department.

So we tear up the asphalt to save money on repaving. Environmental laws, combined with the tar, gas, motor oil, diesel fuel, antifreeze, brake fluid and other contaminants mean it costs twice as much to dispose of the stuff in a safe manner. It also makes it easier to directly contaminate the surrounding soil through erosion of the gravel roads along with its contaminants.

The future of our roads is grim. Reduced tax revenue in the face of rising road expenses means less maintenance. Potholes will be ignored until someone breaks an axle. Quick fixes will be signs and cold patch. Bridges, already in a sad state, will have speed and weight limits imposed. Lanes may be shut down, creating a bottleneck. Finally, some of the bridges will be closed entirely. Detours will mean many miles of extra driving and increased traffic on the remaining bridges. Entire communities will suddenly find themselves much further off the beaten path, with the resulting economic effects wreaking havoc on already poor areas.

The only advantage I find is in the seclusion offered to a doomstead when the MZBs can't cross a river to pillage the place.

[Blacksmith]

Our county has been replacing Japanese pavement, which just a tin topping over what was originally a gravel road. Gravel while dusty and more likely to throw gravel is much easier to maintain.

The ashphalt is recycled at a small profit.

[mcgowanjm]

The future of our roads is grim. Reduced tax revenue in the face of rising road expenses means less maintenance. Potholes will be ignored until someone breaks an axle. Quick fixes will be signs and cold patch. Bridges, already in a sad state, will have speed and weight limits imposed. Lanes may be shut down, creating a bottleneck. Finally, some of the bridges will be closed entirely. Detours will mean many miles of extra driving and increased traffic on the remaining bridges. Entire communities will suddenly find themselves much further off the beaten path, with the resulting economic effects wreaking havoc on already poor areas.

My Hometown's been here since 1975. I clearly remember
a railroad, two banks, a John Deere dealership and 5 grocers.

Now all gone. What's neat is the living on the 'right' side
of the 'tracks' now means having the worst 'most gravel'
roads.

[frankthetank]

Without a lot of work, the roads up here will crumble VERY quickly. With 40 inches of snow a year, spring/summer rains, temps that go from -30F to 100F almost every year ... they have a hard time not moving, shifting, cracking, etc....

I've noticed the method of choice is to just patch the holes, cracks with some black tar or asphalt... It lasts rarely longer then a few months or a year.

I remember the main drag through Madison, WI a few years ago, before the ripped the whole thing out and replaced it, was probably the worst road i've ever driven on in this state, in a city. I really think i did damage to my car hitting some of the crater sized potholes.

[pup55]

Without a lot of work, the roads up here will crumble VERY quickly.

On my annual experiment in sustainable transportation in Iowa this year, I did observe that the state and/or county has quit maintaining some of the old country roads which were originally cut in the 30's when the cars came in...from what I understand the same thing goes for snow plowing....so a lot of these are gradually turning back to prairie.... the grass is growing over them and it will not be long at all until they have two strips for the tires and that is it...

A lot of the smaller county roads in the area that they ostensibly were 'maintaining" were also in terrible shape.... patched, potholed, cracked, and a lot of other stuff. You ride for about two days on your little bike and your butt feels absolutely every bump, too....

According to the available literature there were 25 miles of paved road in IA in 1920, so I imagine a lot of this was also put in between then and 1950, some of which were the WPA days. Ironic, that this gift that the previous generation left for us during the last economic crisis is wearing out at exactly the moment we can least afford to repair it.

According to various sources, the cost to repave a mile of road with asphalt is $100,000 in some parts of the country right now, and with approximately 5000 miles of paved road in my native state, you could repave all of the deteriorating roads in the entire state for a cost of a mere $500 million, which is the approximate cost of 3 DAYS of the Iraq War of Conquest, which as you all know was desperately needed to protect the country from 22 million rug traders who had nothing to do with 9/11.

To repave the deteriorating 2.3 million miles of road in the entire nation, at that rate, it would take only $250B which is about a third of the stated cost of the so-called "tarp" program which was spent after being produced out of nowhere by Hank Paulson to bail out his buddies, which of course will be paid for by the same grandchildren who will have to push their cars out of whatever state's mud when the rest of these roads go to hell on them, which they will....

So, silly humans, those our the priorities at the moment. It's enough to make you want to vomit.

[gnm]

I am still waiting for the county to gravel our road but I don't suppose it will ever happen.... Just unimproved dirt for 4 miles....

You elitists and your fancy gravel roads....

-G