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US imposes steel tarrifs on China

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US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby dorlomin » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 12:14:53

Specificaly steel piping and its seems to be aimed at piping for the oil and gas industries.

BBC

It is being touted as an anti dumping measure.
A US trade commission has agreed plans to impose tariffs on imports of Chinese-made steel pipes.

The US's International Trade Commission voted unanimously in favour of the tariffs, designed to offset Chinese government subsidies.

Duties ranging between 10% and 15% are now set to be imposed.

The move is the latest in a string of recent trade disputes between China and the US, who accuse China of using unfair subsidies and price practices.


Seems an open goal for the current administration. Will be loved by the steel industry and hated by the oil and gas industry, Although it will help preserve customers for the gas and coal industries.

Slowly a trade war is brewing.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 13:08:40

Can't personally fault Obama for fighting back on the China junk. From personal experience as a tradesman Chinese manufactured pipe and pressure parts such as valves etc. Have caused a lot of problems with failures. In the oil and gas industry or any other industry that uses piping. valves and pressure parts that can be like building a bomb into your industrial plant. It seldom passes regulatory quality control specs.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby gollum » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 14:10:29

My only issue with Obama, as far as tariffs go is that they aren't across the board tariffs on everything Chinese, we need to rebuild our own industry.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby patience » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 15:02:55

I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Thralen » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 15:19:25

patience wrote:I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.


While that may be true Patience, I think that the total pain involved will be much, much higher if we don't get US manufacturing started once more.

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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby gollum » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 16:24:16

patience wrote:I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.



Efficient or not, I don't see how any industry can compete with a state backed factory that has virtually no labor costs, unless we all want to have the living standard of bangladesh. Personally I consider those who conspired to send our jobs and factories overseas to be treasonous scum of the worst kind.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby sicophiliac » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 18:03:04

Eh I personally see a highly devalued dollar in the near future, that in itself should do a lot to iron out these trade deficits. At least we have a shred of good news here that Obama is standing up for American manufacturing at least to a small degree, I don't think the Chinese are anymore efficient than we are.. they just have a artificially low currency value, slave labor wages and government subsidies giving them an edge. Id rather pay a bit more for something made here in the US than pay less only to have some of that money bled out of our economy and returned in the form of government debt via treasury bonds.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby bromius » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 19:29:30

Glad to see a hint of protectionism starting to emerge. I think gollum is right, I don't think we are more inefficient than the Chinese at least in terms of producing the most stuff from the least resources and energy. The 'inefficiencies' we have on our end of the trading relationship are protections for workers and the environment.

When something like this goes down, inevitably there will be all kinds of editorials from the pro Globalization people about how tariffs are bad, Smoot Hawley, depression, etc etc. Tariffs do discourage international trade, but that is only a bad thing if you are a net exporter of goods, which certainly is not the case in the US anymore.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby gollum » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 20:12:39

In my sight, the biggest beneficiary of free trade has been the US government, receiving the profits of Chinese factories in the form of treasuries sold, at the expense of both Chinese and US workers. So called free trade has been the biggest disaster in this countries history. The extent of this mess will be very clear when we discover our factories and ability to make things gone, with the average american not being able to buy so much as a pair of pants or a pot made in this country, with the new makers no longer wiling to trade their products for dollars. The only winners will be the banksters and politicians who have spent the last twenty years lining their pockets at the expense of the people who made this country great.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 20:35:56

deMolay wrote:Can't personally fault Obama for fighting back on the China junk. From personal experience as a tradesman Chinese manufactured pipe and pressure parts such as valves etc. Have caused a lot of problems with failures. In the oil and gas industry or any other industry that uses piping. valves and pressure parts that can be like building a bomb into your industrial plant. It seldom passes regulatory quality control specs.


Man oh man, isn't this the story with EVERY piece of junk we get from China??? From toxic drywall to toxic toxic toys, toxic dog food, the list goes on and on. That article I posted a couple weeks ago about the "last custom cardboard box company in America," I actually didn't cut and paste it all. The rest of the article was about all the shoddy Chinese work that goes into US aircraft maintenance.. scary stuff.

It's like all China wants to do is milk us dry, they don't care about products that are safe because they know this trade situation isn't sustainable so they just want max profits for as long as they can get them.

Plus, we're dealing with an authoritarian "market communist" regime that doesn't even care about its own people, why are we even surprised at all the unsafe products they produce?

EDIT: this is gonna piss the Chinese off.. as for a trade war, they'll just match us tit for tat because they need this trade to continue. So expect retaliation geopolitically rather than a full on trade war.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby deMolay » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 20:56:28

I think it was the pure greed of the multi-national companies to pump their bottom line and boost the bonus of the top tier management people. I stated on here several years ago that the Big 3 would go tits up and move to offshore manufacturing so as to avoid paying out of the unsustainable benefits of the UAW. People have to wake up to the fact the UN is the homogenizing force behind globalization. They are the facilitators.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Blacksmith » Thu 31 Dec 2009, 21:02:07

You will pay USA.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby MarkJ » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 08:18:14

Many of our boiler customers suffer from sticker shock when we give them price quotes on repairs, upgrades and installations.

The cost of copper piping, iron piping, stainless piping, gas lines, oil lines, copper tankless coils, copper or stainless indirect water heaters, copper, brass and iron fittings, isolation valves, air scoops, pressure reducing valves, pressure tanks, backflow preventers, flow-check valves, unions, flanges, purge valves, circulators, pre-fab headers, pro-press fittings, radiant fittings, baseboard, radiators, panel radiators, oil filters, nozzles, aquastats, water feeders, pressure cutoffs, low water cutoffs, oil pumps, burners and repair/replacement parts have skyrocketed.

This has priced many lower income people out of the market, thus forcing them to run decades old grossly oversized, grossly inefficient equipment, or forced them to apply for HEAP, Emergency HEAP or free furnace, boiler maintenance, repair or replacement.

Due to skyrocketing copper prices, many installers re-use old piping and components, install singe vs multiple zones, cut corners on labor/equipment and use iron piping and fittings instead of copper.

Most of the iron fittings are made in China. The iron fittings are relatively cheap, available in large sizes, available everywhere, reusable and they can be installed by unskilled laborers without torches, soldering or skills.

Chinese iron fittings used to be garbage, but quality has improved substantially over the years. Our largest source of manufacturing quality related failures are U.S. made boiler castings (cracking and pinholes), followed by U.S. manufactured furnace heat exchangers. We won't cover some boilers with service contracts due to the high rate of failure.

Many installers and service techs are also using cheaper imported brass fittings on gas line, oil lines and tank or burner connections. These fittings often crack at the seam since they can't take the stress of too much torque, or crack due to freezing. They don't hold up like the heavier one piece U.S. manufactured forged/machined fittings which are often 3X to 4X the price, plus the more expensive fittings are often out of stock, quantities are low and/or they're harder to find.

When one of our suppliers stopped carrying some of the heavy high quality fittings, they said demand was so low that they couldn't justify the large minimum order to supply the few people buying the parts. The same thing happened with some high quality stainless dual filtration nozzles. We had to place an order of a couple hundred nozzles per size/pattern/angle range to justify an order and production run. .

Our supplier said we were one of only a handful of outfits using high quantities of many high end components. Most outfits and independents are trying to maximize profits and lower shop/truck inventory costs by stocking and selling lower quality components.

Failure rate on lower quality components is higher, which leads to more paid callbacks and repeat service, repairs and installations.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 08:38:51

gollum wrote:
patience wrote:I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.



Personally I consider those who conspired to send our jobs and factories overseas to be treasonous scum of the worst kind.


Yet you do buy imported goods, huh?
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby MarkJ » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 09:59:16

PVC, CPVC, push fittings and sometimes PEX were originally used in mobile homes and camps locally since they were inexpensive and tolerant towing, movement, freezing and expansion.

When radiant in floor heating became popular in the region and codes preventing plastics were lifted, PVC, CPVC and Pex plumbing systems with Home Run Manifolds became popular due to low pricing, speed, DIY installations, wet installations, temporary repairs, emergency repairs and the use of low payed unskilled installers.


When Big Box stores moved into the region, the market became flooded with push-fit fittings, temporary splice fittings, saddle clamp fittings, PVC plumbing etc.

PEX is still primarily used by licensed plumbers and hydronic radiant heating installers.

Copper and iron are still popular in the Northeast due to boilers, tankless coils, indirect water heaters, radiators, large water content systems, steam systems, fin tube baseboard and customer preference for copper/iron.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 11:45:01

Pretorian wrote:
gollum wrote:
patience wrote:I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.



Personally I consider those who conspired to send our jobs and factories overseas to be treasonous scum of the worst kind.


Yet you do buy imported goods, huh?



When I have a choice (there is not always a domestic option, I buy made in USA every single time. I have Amana appliances made in USA, GM cars, and try to spend locally. No I don't have a USA made TV but we don't even make one here anymore.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 14:14:58

gollum wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
gollum wrote:
patience wrote:I think tariffs result in supporting inefficient production, by reducing competition. I doubt there is any way to restart US manufacturing without a lot of pain.



Personally I consider those who conspired to send our jobs and factories overseas to be treasonous scum of the worst kind.


Yet you do buy imported goods, huh?



When I have a choice (there is not always a domestic option, I buy made in USA every single time. I have Amana appliances made in USA, GM cars, and try to spend locally. No I don't have a USA made TV but we don't even make one here anymore.



No sorry YOU do have a choice, to buy TV or not, along with everything else. What is it that you need that you do not have a choice, a pacemaker? However many big companies often DO NOT have a choice of wether to move jobs or not, if they want to stay in business that is. Anyways why in the world somebody would entertain with his own wallet your idea of how much your labour is worth? Do you really work 30, 40, 50 times better than a Chinese dude? I kinda doubt it big time.
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby gollum » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 15:42:55

Big business and government opted to outsource our country, I'm always happy to pay more for american goods....But tell me does anyone in the USA make tires? clothes? shoes? . As for wages, I gues what you're saying is that Americans should be glad to make a dollar a day and move back to the third world? Clearly we are overpaid, and the political hacks and banksters are way underpaid?
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Re: US imposes steel tarrifs on China

Unread postby Pretorian » Fri 01 Jan 2010, 16:36:28

gollum wrote: I'm always happy to pay more for american goods....But tell me does anyone in the USA make tires? clothes? shoes?


How much more are you ready to pay? 20 times more, 30? If so, I ccan come up with a nice business plan. Till then ...

gollum wrote: As for wages, I gues what you're saying is that Americans should be glad to make a dollar a day and move back to the third world?


If nobody wants to pay your more than a buck a day than thats what your labour is worth. Its not like you get to choose.

gollum wrote:Clearly we are overpaid, and the political hacks and banksters are way underpaid?



Did I say that? All of you are way overpaid.
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