Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 02 Apr 2010, 22:51:14

PHOENIX — When the bank sued Leann Weaver for not paying her credit card balance, her reaction was typical for someone in that situation. Personal and financial setbacks weighed her down, and she knew she owed the $2,470. So she never went to court to defend herself.

She was startled by what happened next. When she swiped her debit card at the grocery store, it was declined. It turned out Capital One Bank had taken $224.25 from her paycheck, a quarter of her wages for two weeks of work at a retail chain, and her bank account was overdrawn.

“They’re kicking somebody who’s already in the dirt,” she said.

In the rare event that a consumer battles back, creditors frequently lack the documentation to prove their claim, and cases are dropped. That is because many past-due debts are owned not by the banks that issued them, but by debt collectors who bought, for cents on the dollar, a list of names and amounts due.

The case of Sidney Jones shows how punishing the system can be. In January 2001, Mr. Jones, 45, a maintenance worker from California Crossroads, Va., took out a $4,097 personal loan from Beneficial Virginia, a subprime lender now owned by HSBC, the big bank.

He fell behind, and Beneficial sued. Mr. Jones did not appear in court. “I just thought they were going to take what I owed,” he said.

By default, Beneficial won a judgment of $4,750, plus $900 in lawyers’ fees, with the debt accruing interest at 27.55 percent until paid in full. The bank started garnishing his wages in March 2003.

Over the next six years, the bank deducted more than $10,000 from Mr. Jones’s paychecks, but he made little headway on his debt. According to a court order secured by Beneficial’s lawyers last spring, he still owed the company $3,965, a sum nearly equal to the original loan amount.

Mr. Jones, who did not graduate from high school, was baffled. “Where did all this money go that I paid them?” he said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/02/business/economy/02garnish.html?ref=business


I feel bad for anyone living in a state that allows garnishment. What's outrageous is the compounding debt slavery, that poor guy has really paid the bank more than twice over but because of the compounding interest and fees he's only made a small dent in the original $4,750 debt.

What's really going to hurt people are the student loans -- in this case, the federal government will garnish your wages, so there's no state where you can avoid the debt slavery. The trade schools and community colleges are so packed right now that the private career schools are doing brisk business. The problem here is that the private schools charge insane amounts of money, up to $23,000 for a freaking cooking certificate. When you start getting compounding interest and fees on a debt like that, it'll never be paid back.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Novus » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 00:35:24

Debt slavery it is the way the world is going. Fight the machine or be a slave to it. Your choice people.
User avatar
Novus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 07:46:05

In Florida, garnishments are common. I fought Sun Trust for eight years for giving my construction draws to a contractor they knew wasn’t doing the work and not paying his subcontractors. Turns out that Florida has a concept called the economic loss rule. That rule simply stated says that once you borrow money and designate a contractor, the bank can release that money to the contractor knowing full well he has no intention of using the money released to him for the designated purpose. In a nut shell, the bank has no duty to protect your interest. Needless to say after eight years and three appeals I lost.

Judgments, obligations under my construction loan agreement to finish the home that was never completed, liens and attorney fees put me in debt to the tune of about $475,000.

The bank garnished my wages. It took them a while though. On the first hearing they asked for a garnishment on the wrong case number. It was denied. On the second hearing they garnished my wages from the wrong school board. On notice of the third hearing, I filed bankruptcy. They got my land and the money pit house I built, but they did not get my cars and home I lived in and they never got a penny of my wages.

Bottom line, the county law library is free to the public. A prose litigant almost never wins but he can run up the other side’s attorney fees and in the last moment he can file bankruptcy.

Never, never, never ignore a summons to a hearing; if you are not there to represent yourself, the court has no option but to accept the other side’s version of the facts as the truth.
User avatar
Cloud9
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2961
Joined: Wed 26 Jul 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby mcgowanjm » Sat 03 Apr 2010, 09:24:09

Cloud9 wrote:In Florida, garnishments are common. I fought Sun Trust for eight years for giving my construction draws to a contractor they knew wasn’t doing the work and not paying his subcontractors. Turns out that Florida has a concept called the economic loss rule. That rule simply stated says that once you borrow money and designate a contractor, the bank can release that money to the contractor knowing full well he has no intention of using the money released to him for the designated purpose. In a nut shell, the bank has no duty to protect your interest. Needless to say after eight years and three appeals I lost.

Judgments, obligations under my construction loan agreement to finish the home that was never completed, liens and attorney fees put me in debt to the tune of about $475,000.

The bank garnished my wages. It took them a while though. On the first hearing they asked for a garnishment on the wrong case number. It was denied. On the second hearing they garnished my wages from the wrong school board. On notice of the third hearing, I filed bankruptcy. They got my land and the money pit house I built, but they did not get my cars and home I lived in and they never got a penny of my wages.

Bottom line, the county law library is free to the public. A prose litigant almost never wins but he can run up the other side’s attorney fees and in the last moment he can file bankruptcy.

Never, never, never ignore a summons to a hearing; if you are not there to represent yourself, the court has no option but to accept the other side’s version of the facts as the truth.


I know the above to be accurate. Arkansas, Mississippi
must have similar laws. If my Dad had known
1/2 of the above. Or told me what was going on.

Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda. :evil:
mcgowanjm
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2455
Joined: Fri 23 May 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Kristen » Sun 04 Apr 2010, 03:25:28

This is another crisis on the horizon, a droplet of water from a thunderstorm.

Firstly, to those who are employed, wage garnishing will decrease demand for goods and services. When those services are not needed, more layoffs will ensue. Also many of them may go homeless because they cannot afford rent. Then what? You might lose your job from being homeless, I don't know.

The unemployment rate is at an all time high. You might be able to garnish unemployment benefits, but taking away the whole thing would crush the debtor, making payment unobtainable. I see a wave of Student Loan defaults coming because of the jobs situation. It will be amusing to see the banks scramble when they realize you can't garnish a whole population and still make money throughout the economy.

I realize this mess was caused by people living beyond their means, but the banks however should not have financed such trickery advertisers have produced; the constant suggestion that not owning something makes you unhappy. After years of repetition it is hammered in the mind making people embarrassed of lifestyles that have been demonized. It would be nice if the person was aware of bias, but being aware is demonized too. One must abide by the norms of society or forever be displaced.
User avatar
Kristen
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon 17 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 04 Apr 2010, 22:50:24

Kristen wrote:
I realize this mess was caused by people living beyond their means, but the banks however should not have financed such trickery advertisers have produced; the constant suggestion that not owning something makes you unhappy. After years of repetition it is hammered in the mind making people embarrassed of lifestyles that have been demonized. It would be nice if the person was aware of bias, but being aware is demonized too. One must abide by the norms of society or forever be displaced.

In the long run, maybe this is a good thing, if it gets most people to live within their means and save more.

Behavioral economics now documents that most people are as dumb as dirt by letting their emotions run away with them and getting themselves into financial trouble.

OTOH, for folks who let many THOUSANDS of dollars of credit card debt pile up and see the interest costs pile up -- they have plenty of chances to change their behavior. They (IMO) just assume that since the debt is unsecured, that they can beat the system. Well guess what - they often can't.

The whole idea of "keeping up with the Joneses" is so stupid anyway. Logically, unless you are Bill Gates or a peer, there will ALWAYS be those you can't keep up with. So don't even play that game.

It took me all of about 30 seconds to come to that conclusion in my 20's, basically tell all the marketers and preeners to go directly to hell, and be a saver. Any "embarrassment" I have suffered having an old car, old simple clothes, a small apartment on the wrong end of town, etc. has more than been made up for by never having to worry about paying my bills (which I keep under control), or retiring at a decent age.

Sorry, but the idea that people are just helpless to make simple decisions like this in the face of those mean old marketers is just ridiculous. Typical far left wing "everyone needs help" mentality.

All these "feeling displaced" people need to do some growing up.
User avatar
Outcast_Searcher
COB
COB
 
Posts: 10142
Joined: Sat 27 Jun 2009, 21:26:42
Location: Central KY

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby TreeFarmer » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 08:22:46

I'm right there with you O_S. When I finished college and got a job I took a look at my paycheck and all the stuff my friends had and then did some quick calculations to see how they could afford all of that stuff. I quickly realized that they could not and had to be deep in debt. I, like you, am a saver not a spender and it has certainly led to much greater peace of mind for me over the years.

TF
User avatar
TreeFarmer
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue 26 Jun 2007, 03:00:00

Re: Pay Garnishments Rise as Debtors Fall Behind

Unread postby Kristen » Mon 05 Apr 2010, 14:25:29

My hat goes off to you two, it must be frustrating dealing with the consequences of such excess. Or it may be advantageous. For in Minnesota, the city of minneapolis gives a new home owner 10,000 dollars down so to speak, plus 8.500 from other organizations. A houe in North Minneapolis is about 40,000. You can do the math.

Outcast, I totally agree with you on people needith to take control of their emotions. Being medicated isn't helping and may be making things easier.
User avatar
Kristen
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 711
Joined: Mon 17 Jul 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota


Return to Economics & Finance

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests