[misterno]

You are not gonna believe the fuel consumption of certain military aircraft and tanks.

See it yourself

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/r ... itemid=593

I mean I just don't understand how Pentagon will keep up its operations when PO hits. Call me an optimist but I think the wars will end all over the world.

[shortonsense]

I mean I just don't understand how Pentagon will keep up its operations when PO hits. Call me an optimist but I think the wars will end all over the world.

PO hit 5 years ago..and the wars all over the world didn't end. Sorry.

[dinopello]

You are not gonna believe the fuel consumption of certain military aircraft and tanks.

See it yourself

http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/r ... itemid=593

I mean I just don't understand how Pentagon will keep up its operations when PO hits. Call me an optimist but I think the wars will end all over the world.

The military is one of the most aggressive institutions at looking at alternative energy sources for that reason. But, regardless, wars will still happen.

[misterno]

I mean I just don't understand how Pentagon will keep up its operations when PO hits. Call me an optimist but I think the wars will end all over the world.

PO hit 5 years ago..and the wars all over the world didn't end. Sorry.

If PO hit 5 years ago, howcome we do not see any decline in oil production and there is no gap between demand and supply yet?

[shortonsense]

I mean I just don't understand how Pentagon will keep up its operations when PO hits. Call me an optimist but I think the wars will end all over the world.

PO hit 5 years ago..and the wars all over the world didn't end. Sorry.

If PO hit 5 years ago, howcome we do not see any decline in oil production and there is no gap between demand and supply yet?

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

[bencole]

You are not gonna believe the fuel consumption of certain military aircraft and tanks.

An important point considering what effect the loss of total air superiority and mechanization will have on US power projection in the future. With the loss of the world's policeman, wars could become more drawn out and bloody and conflicts that have been checked could flare up (Korea, Taiwan).

[eastbay]

I suspect pilotless drones use considerably less fuel which will stretch the increasingly limited fuel supply for a time. I understand most missions in Afghanistan are now conducted by pilotless aircraft.

[Keith_McClary]

F-15 fighters burn 25 gallons per minute?????????

At speed that's about 0.7 mpg.

My neighbor gets 5 mpg in his little motorhome towing an SUV. It would be worse in one of those big motorhomes with a built-in garage (for your dirt-bikes and quads) and a boat strapped on top.

Around here they prefer a "fifth-wheel" camper towed by a macho pickup.

I don't know the fuel economy of the F-650 compares to the F-15.

[AirlinePilot]

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

BS statement. Please once again show me ONE of your so called prophets who said such a thing.....Within days???? Please!!

[davep]

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

BS statement. Please once again show me ONE of your so called prophets who said such a thing.....Within days???? Please!!

I agree. SoS is becoming a bit of a one trick pony. And it's getting tiresome.

[shortonsense]

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

BS statement. Please once again show me ONE of your so called prophets who said such a thing.....Within days???? Please!!

I don't make this stuff up, and I've provided this reference before. Apparently peak oil was supposed to be pretty fast acting. I'm not sure I've found any contemporary PO predictions worse...and I'm glad its an actual energy "expert" who wrote this rather than some contingent of the fruitloops brigade.

http://www.bluegreenearth.us/archive/ar ... -2005.html

The scenario I foresee is that market-based panic will, within a few days, drive prices up skyward. And as supplies can no longer slake daily world demand of over 80 million barrels a day, the market will become paralyzed at prices too high for the wheels of commerce and even daily living in "advanced" societies. There may be an event that appears to trigger this final energy crash, but the overall cause will be the huge consumption on a finite planet.
The trucks will no longer pull into Wal-Mart. Or Safeway or other food stores. The freighters bringing packaged techno-toys and whatnot from China will have no fuel. There will be fuel in many places, but hoarding and uncertainty will trigger outages, violence and chaos. For only a short time will the police and military be able to maintain order, if at all. The damage that several days' oil shortage and outage will do will soon wreak permanent damage that starts with companies and consumers not paying their bills and not going to work.

Would you like the quote from the fruitloops brigade as well? I'm sure I can find something at Mikes old site which would qualify, but I like the more educated Prophets who take themselves oh so seriously when they made their prognostications.

[shortonsense]

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

BS statement. Please once again show me ONE of your so called prophets who said such a thing.....Within days???? Please!!

I agree. SoS is becoming a bit of a one trick pony. And it's getting tiresome.

Airlines short memory I understand, but I have never considered you to be so limited. I've provided the link before...the claims made in 2005 for the results of peak aren't MY one trick pony. Perhaps everyone might prefer claims of "running out" dating back into the middle of the last century (or the century before that?) instead? Of course, in some of those cases no one could claim that the "running out" would stop suburbia because...well...suburbia hadn't even been invented yet.

[AirlinePilot]

Your BS line from JL's blog can be interpreted FAR differently than you do. I suggest you read the whole thing and ASK yourself what was meant. Take off your cony flavored glasses first though.

From the same article.....

"Despite the need to be prepared for imminent, final energy shortage - which could happen now or in several years at the latest - people persist in focusing too much on the likely date of the passing of the peak. It is already clear that the oil industry and OPEC numbers on oil reserves are suspect. So we can simply offer a range of oft-quoted peak-oil arrival times: 2005-2012. Some more distant figures such as 2020 are based on infinite technological improvements on extraction and removing the problematic sulfur, for example. Factoring in the "irregular" petroleum sources, the peak year of world oil extraction is to be 2007, according to the Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas. "

That particular paragraph tells me that what is meant is that at some point IN THE FUTURE, we will have an "event" (that's even mentioned if you read the whole thing!) which triggers a final crisis. Plausible, but it doesnt mean its all going down IMMEDIATELY AFTER PEAK.

You claiming that the meaning there is that happens IMMEDIATELY after Peak is a pile of BS..and you know it. It's purely you grasping at straws shouting about something that isnt there. Dont try and claim sites like LATOC and other FRINGE players are the "prophets" you keep talking about. No such truth exists and you screaming about it over and over wont make it true as long as I'm around here.

The modern concept of Peak Oil does not apply to the "running out" Loonies from many years ago. Stop lumping them in with the more modern disciples of Peak Oil. Again, its blatant obfuscation and BS to do so. Your smart enough to know that.

[AirlinePilot]

Darned if I know. The Prophets said that the Walmart trucks would stop running within days of the Blessed Event as well, and that didn't happen either. Maybe the Prophets don't know diddly about economics?

What was meant was an EVENT..sometime in the future..AFTER PEAK.... could trigger shortages etc leading to some sort of collapse. The Peak WAS NOT and IS NOT the event which causes the trucks to cease rolling.


Is it not obvious to others here who are capable of reading and comprehending the Lundberg piece?

[AirlinePilot]

Nice ad hom Shorty..on two posters at once no less. KNOCK IT OFF.

[shortonsense]

You claiming that the meaning there is that happens IMMEDIATELY after Peak is a pile of BS..and you know it.

"The scenario I foresee is that market-based panic will, within a few days, drive prices up skyward."

"within a few days" is hardly an interpretation.

"There may be an event with appears to trigger" refers to something along the lines of financial crashes, black swans, etc etc. Jan appears to think that this event will perhaps disguise what is actually happening.

But he does not equivocate.

"The trucks will no longer pull into Wal-Mart. Or Safeway or other food stores. The freighters bringing packaged techno-toys and whatnot from China will have no fuel. There will be fuel in many places, but hoarding and uncertainty will trigger outages, violence and chaos."

Certainly if he does not equivocate, there is no reason why I should. These are his words, not mine. You are free to interpret them as you will. Perhaps where you grew up "within a few days" is similar to bible speak where believers then claim that "days" should be translated as "billions of years" when faced with evolution or geologic reality. I certainly am under no such requirement to "believe" that days suddenly mean whatever YOU think they are. I credit them with having 24 hours a piece, like most others do.

[bobcousins]

shortonsense is entirely correct, the standard PO meme was that collapse would occur within weeks of PO, as the markets realize the enormity of the situation and go into panic mode. Even as a doomer, I would point out that collapse would take years to decades not weeks, but I was a voice in the wilderness.

I recall Mike Ruppert predicting collapse of the USA "within two weeks" which was greeted with wild applause, no one said it was bunk. That prediction was 6 years ago I think...

What has always happened here is that the gurus develop a coterie of hysterical fans, making all sorts of wild predictions which are not countered by the gurus, then when those wild predictions come to nothing, the gurus say "yes, but I never made those predictions". The gurus like to whip up panic with dire warnings, but absolve themselves of any responsibility.

[AirlinePilot]

shortonsense is entirely correct, the standard PO meme was that collapse would occur within weeks of PO, as the markets realize the enormity of the situation and go into panic mode. Even as a doomer, I would point out that collapse would take years to decades not weeks, but I was a voice in the wilderness.

I dont know what website you've been reading but the rational folks here haven't been talking about such things as long as i've been a member. Once again a sweeping and largely incorrect generalization of what has gone on here.

[Keith_McClary]

I dont know what website you've been reading but the rational folks here haven't been talking about such things as long as i've been a member. Once again a sweeping and largely incorrect generalization of what has gone on here.

Nobody pays attention to us not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper-ites.

[bobcousins]

shortonsense is entirely correct, the standard PO meme was that collapse would occur within weeks of PO, as the markets realize the enormity of the situation and go into panic mode. Even as a doomer, I would point out that collapse would take years to decades not weeks, but I was a voice in the wilderness.

I dont know what website you've been reading but the rational folks here haven't been talking about such things as long as i've been a member. Once again a sweeping and largely incorrect generalization of what has gone on here.

Picking only the "rational" folks to make your point... Of course, your view of who was rational or not is subjective., which is exactly the sort of selective view after the fact was referring to. When you include ALL the spectrum of opinion, and not just the set that is convenient for your view, I am not far off the mark.

For future reference, would all posters please mark their posts as "rational" or "irrational".

It is not like I am the only person to have noticed the many predictions of imminent doom that are quietly forgotten and replaced with fresh predictions of imminent doom. You only have to look at the other threads to see people making exactly those sort of predictions. Perhaps you are not reading the same site?