[PrestonSturges]

You know how Fox New says Obama needs to waive the Jones Act and it's trade unions that are preventing the spill clean up?

http://mediamatters.org/research/201006230019

About a quarter of the cleanup vessels are foreign flagged

Acting Maritime Administrator: "Twenty-three percent of the vessels responding to the oil spill are not U.S.-flag," and they are "not in violation of the Jones Act." David Matsuda, acting Maritime Administrator, stated in June 17 congressional testimony that "During the current situation in the Gulf of Mexico, U.S.- flag vessels have been used in every situation where U.S. vessels and crew are available. Seventy-seven percent of the vessels providing oil spill response in the Gulf are U.S.- flagged." He added, "Even though twenty-three percent of the vessels responding to the oil spill are not U.S.-flag, none of these are known to be in violation of any U.S. law or regulation. Vessels that do not call upon points in the United States are not in violation of the Jones Act."

And about that Jones Act? Turns out it already exempts vessels engaged in oil cleanup
http://www.1800jonesact.com/maritime_st ... 1_551.html

55113. Use of foreign documented oil spill response vessels.
"§ 55113. Use of foreign documented oil spill response vessels "Notwithstanding any other provision of law, an oil spill response vessel documented under the laws of a foreign country may operate in waters of the United States on an emergency and temporary basis, for the purpose of recovering, transporting,
and unloading in a United States port oil discharged as a result of an oil spill in or near those waters,

Wow, more anti-America propaganda from Fox News (part owned by the Saudis, remember?).

Yep, another big fat hoax.

Last week it was all about how Obama was falling down on the job because he had not begged for the wise advice of the BP chairman. Well we got to see him testify, and he was an idiot. But that was last weeks hoaxy crisis.

[Plantagenet]

Its good to know the Obama administration isn't letting the Jones Act prevent foreign vessels helping out with the BP oil spill, but for some reason some foreign vessels were blocked. It appears the actual problem may have come from the EPA, which definitely was involved in stopping some high tech Dutch skimmers. In more good news the EPA finally ended its idiotic refusal to allow the Dutch to send some of their extremely effective oil skimmers to help with the oil spill.

----------------
The Dutch oil skimmers:

The Dutch oil skimmers:

The Dutch offered to fly their skimmer arm systems to the Gulf 3 days after the oil spill started. The offer was apparently turned down because EPA regulations do not allow water with oil to be pumped back into the ocean. If all the oily water was retained in the tanker, the capacity of the system would be greatly diminished because most of what is pumped into the tanker is sea water.

As of June 8th, BP reported that they have collected 64,650 barrels of oil in the Gulf....That is less than one day’s rated capacity of the Dutch oil skimmers.

Turning down the Dutch skimmers just shows a total lack of leadership... To just leave the oil in the water because regulations do not allow you to pump slightly polluted oil back into the ocean is just plain stupid. The small amount of oil pumped back into the ocean with the Dutch system is tiny droplets of suspended oil that will be quickly broken down by naturally occurring bacteria.

Using the Dutch skimmers should have prevented most of the oil from ever getting even close to shore. The Dutch skimmers work best close to the source of the spill where the oil is more concentrated. Outside of that circle, dispersants could be used. Additional smaller skimmers could be used closer to shore to pick up patches that might get through the first 2 rings. The less oil that reaches shore, the less there is to clean up. The less oil that reaches shore, the faster the environment will restored by natural cleaning processes.

Having technology like the Dutch skimmers should also allow us to feel more comfortable about allowing deepwater drilling. If the skimmers work then it greatly lowers the environmental risks from future oil leaks in deep water. One advantage to deepwater wells is they are typically very far from shore, giving a long response time to clean up the problem. There would be no need to have a moratorium on deepwater drilling and having 50,000 people loose their jobs.

This incident with the skimmers just shows the lack of leadership by the President and other government officials. Most people, certainly the local residents, recognized that the government systems to deal with the oil spill were inadequate. It took over 6 weeks for the government to allow the state of Louisiana to build sand berms to protect the marshes, after oil has already entered the marshes. Decisions need to be made, often without full information and sometimes conflicting rules and regulations. The oil well did not stop spilling oil as the government tried to study the problems and make recommendations. There was no one with the authority to make the fast decisions necessary to combat the spill.

[PrestonSturges]

June 14 Washington Post article says the Dutch skimmers were accepted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04232.html

So we'll chalk up your information as just outdated, not an outright hoax.

[Plantagenet]

June 14 Washington Post article says the Dutch skimmers were accepted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 04232.html

So we'll chalk up your information as just outdated, not an outright hoax.

Hi Preston:

Please reread my post. It clearly states that the Dutch super-skimmers were finally allowed into the US. But June 14 is SEVEN weeks after they were first offered to the US by the Dutch back in April. Why did the Obama administration take SEVEN weeks to approve vitally needed equipment that might have drastically reduced the impact of the oil spill?

The problem started when the Obama administration first rejected without explanation the Dutch skimmers outright back in April when the Dutch first offered them THREE DAYS AFTER THE SPILL STARTED. Then, as local officials (and the Dutch) were trying to find out why these super skimmers couldn't come into the US and pick up the oil, the Obama administration passed the buck and offered excuses and mindlessly delayed accepting them for SEVEN more weeks ---- just at a time when they could've been really useful in the Gulf. These skimmers are capable of picking up SIXTY THOUSAND barrels a day. Think what that means---they could've picked up virtually all of the oil right around the well that the BP well released in the last two months before it had to spread around the Gulf if the Obama administration had allowed them into the U.S. right after the spill started.

The heavy oil that has already hit the marshes in Louisianna and the Islands of Alabama and is hitting the beaches in Florida today might well have been largely collected by these skimmers right at the well site if the Obama administration hadn't blocked the skimmers for seven weeks while the oil spilled mostly uncollected from the well site.

[PrestonSturges]

Aside from the fact that you are doing your inevitable threadjack, does anyone have any actual information about these skimmers like the manufacturers web site? This big hardware, and I did not see them when I was reading up on skimmers.

It's nice to toss around numbers, but considering how much of your information is totally made up, you should offer some facts instead of just threadjacking.

[Plantagenet]

Aside from the fact that you are doing your inevitable threadjack, does anyone have any actual information about these skimmers like the manufacturers web site? This big hardware, and I did not see them when I was reading up on skimmers.

It's nice to toss around numbers, but considering how much of your information is totally made up, you should offer some facts instead of just threadjacking.

1. How is it a "threadjack" to directly respond to your topic about foreign ships being blocked from getting into the U.S.? Do you not want anyone to respond to your posts?

2. Getting the Dutch skimmers into the US has been the main concern of people who were fighting the Obama administration over foreign ships. The Dutch ships were blocked by the Obama administration for seven weeks---its simply a fact. The story was covered not only by Fox, but by all the MSM. Its been heavily discussed in the environmental community.

3. I put a link to a news story about the skimmers and their capacity to pick up huge amounts of oil each day in my post above. Rather then claiming the link is "made up" why don't you take a second and read the news story there about the skimmers or do some research yourself if you doubt the news story.

4. Here is some additional info on the capacity of the Dutch skimmers published on June 14, when the Obama administration finally let them in:
"Tankers with skimmer arms supplied by the Dutch are now working in the Gulf. Each of these skimmers has the capacity to collect up to 5,000 tons of oil per day. That is 36,500 barrels of oil per day for each skimmer. That’s about equals the newly revised high estimate of how much oil is leaking from the well.

On June 14th 2010, BP reported that “Operations to skim oil from the surface of the water now have recovered, in total, almost 475,000 barrels (19.9 million gallons) of oily liquid”. That is only a small fraction of the oil being leaked. These new skimmers should dramatically increase that amount."

Do you get it now? Three Dutch super-skimmers...each one capable of picking up about 36,500 BBL/day for a total of 109,500 BBL/day. These skimmers could've picked up just about all the oil being spilt by BP---If the Obama people had let them in, there would be MUCH LESS oil on the beaches now. Take off your partisan blinders for a second----surely you can see how stupid it was for the Obama administration to block the Dutch super skimmers for seven weeks?

Sheesh!

[PrestonSturges]

Well so far I see the one story you refer to and that seems to be the only one getting quoted and over, which doesn't exactly rock my world. Hopefully it's different by being accurate and not just a bunch of bull.

Maybe the reason there seems to be no information about these systems is maybe there isn't any commercial source for these things since these are described as being owned by the Dutch government (again, maybe true, maybe false). Shell, Exxon, BP, Pemex certainly don't own them. No we have to get them from the wussy Europeans.

Of course, all the oil companies claimed to be able to handle a spill of this size. All of them filed the same plans. First BP lied about the size of the spill by a factor of 20, and they claimed that they had the ability to handle a much larger spill anyway.

Maybe I'm unfair to you, I just not willing to put the energy into figuring out what your point is, if any.

[PrestonSturges]

Now I'm being serious here and I'm not picking on Plantagenet:

Is that story about arms or is it about tankers? These are being used interchangeably.

The Dutch just happen to have enough capacity to deal with the biggest oil spill in history? Really? Just lying around? Really? Do they have a spaceship capable of faster than light travel just lying around that they never got around to using? Maybe they already constructed a huge cage in case Godzilla attacks. I'm not saying that isn't possible, but it doesn't add up.

[PrestonSturges]

Finally a decent article from the Christian Science Monitor.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0601/ ... Dutch-help

The "sweeping arms" (not boats) were airlifted from the Netherlands. They are "delicate and slow moving" and need calm water. Most skimmers need water flat as a skating rink. I'm not sure how much of that there is 40 miles offshore. But they aren't going to collect more than a fraction of their maximum capacity offshore. I guess the question is how they would deal with a very nice day of 6' waves without chop. It's a rare day when the sea lays down flat offshore.

Hopefully they can be used closer to shore with shallower draft boats where the water is calmer.

Again, the whole "Jones Act" thing is a hoax.

[Gorm]

I think the problem really is stupid people beeing in charge at tomany level. The head of any administration can not make all desisons everywere anytime.This is not a specifik US problem but I get the feeling it is a problem getting worse almost everywere.

[dinopello]

I don't know which is stupider - Fox News, or people who take Fox News seriously enough to bother critiquing them... or people who don't know which is stupider.

I stopped watching when Kiran Chetry left and the terror level dropped to "Guarded"

[PrestonSturges]

I don't know which is stupider - Fox News, or people who take Fox News seriously enough to bother critiquing them... or people who don't know which is stupider.

I stopped watching when Kiran Chetry left and the terror level dropped to "Guarded"

The problem is they are a better propaganda machine than anything the Third Reich had. And speaking of stupid, there's nothing stupider than the Nazis with their grand conspiracy theory about how the Jews and liberals were going to kill an enslave all the white people, and there was an international Marxist conspiracy of the Jews, racial mongrels, liberals, and trade unions. Which is exactly the same song and dance Fox peddles about the Jews (Soros, Alinsky), their racial mongrel puppets (Obama), unions (SIUA), liberals (ACORN etc etc) and FEMA camps, death panels, microchips etc etc. They are a neonazi phenomenon, and they need to be watched closely.

[Fishman]

Sorry Preston, it seems the propaganda machines on the left have completely collapsed. ALMOST NO ONE watches or believes anything that comes out of the left media anymore. NPR is little more than an Obama cheerleading squad. BOO HOO. Any bets on which one folds first, ABC, MSDNC, or NBC?

[PrestonSturges]

Sorry Preston, it seems the propaganda machines on the left have completely collapsed. ALMOST NO ONE watches or believes anything that comes out of the left media anymore. NPR is little more than an Obama cheerleading squad. BOO HOO. Any bets on which one folds first, ABC, MSDNC, or NBC?

.....you're not disagreeing with anything I said, you're just declaring victory?

[efarmer]

Fox delivers news bent to the ideology that they have identified as a lucrative market niche.
They deliver a full package of what happened, what it means, who is responsible, and what you should do about it. MSNBC and other liberal biased outlets do not do as good of a job at delivering this very in demand product to their own market niches, believing that a more nuanced reporting is of appeal to an discerning audience that long ago decided that with the internet, you could pull in 4 or 5 versions from sources with known biases and figure out what the truth might be and ponder the issue, they are delivering an incomplete ideology in hopes it appeals to people who already know not to shop for it in one spot.

I know thinking conservatives love to have a channel that dotes on them just like liberals have loved having the news bent for them so often over the decades.

Fox is very good at what they do, and well managed, and when there is any inkling of a new idiom replacing the one they are dominating, they will shift to it, and will bring a bulk of their audience along with them automatically. This is the cool part of delivering a complete ideology package.


I remember when the President would come on TV in the 1960's and speak and then the NBC or CBS guy would come on and explain what he just said in simpler terms but usually stop short of telling you why he was wrong or right and what you should do about it, or what he hadn't told you that you should be absolutely terrified of. These omissions have now been corrected for any large demographic proven to warrant their own channel.

I want the news where they just can come on and say, "nothing happened today of concern to you, and we would like to show you a dog that plays the harmonica followed by an authority figure that we have taught you to dislike getting his ass kicked. Busty Snark and Hunk Jabber have all of that coming up right after the break for you. And now for a word from our sponsors."

Busty Snark is hot, and she doesn't back down from all of the big dogs she calls by their last name and I think she would probably toast and crumble them if she wasn't always out of time just when it gets good. I wish Busty was a Lady Wrestler so I could see her pin somebody and strut around the ring. I can't wait until Hunk Jabber gets some wrinkles and gets canned and I see him doing erectile dysfunction commercials on late night TV, I'll flip back and forth between him and Busty selling cubic zirconia on the Home Shopping Network, while I wish I was the Shamwow hustler.

[Fishman]

Sorry Preston, disagreeing with someone about who's progaganda is propaganda is a futile arguement. But if you and I are discussing numbers, yes, victory would be an appropriate term.
No takes on which left wing, Obama "thrill down my leg" media is going to collapse first? Efarm, I think the 2008 election cycle and the media awe of Obama, and their reluctance to even begin to question his experience or background, was a bit more than "doting". Appropriately, Biden, Clinton, Palin, McCain were picked apart. If you asked even the basics about Obama you were branded a racist.

[PrestonSturges]

My god you're right, it's a conspiracy of the liberal press.

Ever read Hitler's "Causes of the Collapse?"

[Plantagenet]

[efarmer]

I agree Fishman, Obama got special treatment that got better each time he won after Iowa.

There is a bunch he hasn't done I expected him to at least start, he seems to have taken the bait of some of the traps that Bush got walked into by his wiseguy sidekicks. And he has to deliver on some leadership pretty quick or get ready for moving day.

But Fishman, are you mad at him for cheating you out of President Hillary Clinton and the First Man?

[PrestonSturges]

I think we pounded the Fox story into the dirt so I'm not going to worry about staying on topic.

So did Obama win the election, or did Acorn steal 8,000,000,000 votes?