[Sixstrings]

President Obama has vowed to double U.S. exports within the next five years. That's because exports are critical for rebooting the American economy. It's clear American consumers can't get the economy going on their own. They can't restart the jobs machine. They've run out of money and credit.

It's not just that one out of four Americans is unemployed or underemployed (working part-time, overqualified, or at a lower wage than before). More significantly, the Great Recession burst the housing bubble that had let American consumers turn their homes into ATMs. Now the cash machines are closed.

So the administration figures foreign consumers will have to fill the gap.

Problem is, most other economies also relied on American consumers. Remember the trade gap? Americans used to be the world's biggest and most reliable customers -- sucking in high-tech gadgets assembled in China, car parts from Japan, shirts and shoes from Southeast Asia, and precision instruments from Germany.

With American consumers pulling back, these other economies have also been slowing down. Their unemployment is rising.

Last week I attended a conference with global business executives. When I asked them where they expected to find new customers to replace Americans who are pulling back, they all said China and India and quoted me the same number: 800 million new middle-class consumers from these and other fast-developing countries over the next decade.

Yes, but. As of now China and India are still relying on net exports to fuel their growth. Even if you think their middle classes will eventually become so big and rich they can buy everything these nations will be able to produce, that doesn't mean they'll also buy what the rest of the world produces.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-vanishing-american-co_b_640836.html

So that's the plan.. middle class in the US will be gone forever, exchanged for "800 million new middle-class" in India and China. And Obama says we need to double our exports within five years.. that's sort of a laugh, considering both Republicans and Democrats have been shipping jobs OUT of this country for more than twenty years now.

How does the President propose to double exportes if he won't take any protectionist measures? We need to stop offshoring, stop immigration and enact strategic tariffs to encourage manufacturing in this country.

Incidentally, the article mentions the recent news that GM is now selling more cars in China than the US. Sounds good for US exports right? WRONG -- the GM cars sold in China are made in China. While we keep hollowing ourselves out and giving away the store, the Chinese are protecting their economy.

[Ibon]

The terrible irony in finally seeing the demise of the american consumer (which we have wished for and blamed as the leading culprit in the imbalances of our biosphere) only to see him and her replaced with a collection of humans better organized and resilient to continue the slow replacement of the last of our natural landscapes over to human landscapes. The perseverance of Kudzu Ape should never be underestimated.

[Ibon]

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Americans have suburbanized themselves out of the race. Our overhead is too high. The Chinese and Indians worker can walk to his job. He doesn't have an high-demand, energy-intensive infrastructure with monster housing development spread across the countryside. We built our nest for maximum efficiency and productivity in a cheap-energy regime.

One of our greatest misunderstandings about sustainability is that we just need to curve our high energy consumption. But this is very misleading if you look at China or India that pack in humanity at far higher densities more efficiently. Is this what we are understanding about real sustainability? I see this as proof that Kudzu Ape is only getting better and more resilient at his ability to create disturbed habitats and become more invasive. My thoughts on this resiliency were discussed on this thread;

think-you-re-operating-on-free-will-think-again-t59012.html

In China and India we will have a growing consumer class that will more efficiently express their consumption. What have we gained? This will eventually be exported all over the world.

[Pretorian]

The terrible irony in finally seeing the demise of the american consumer (which we have wished for and blamed as the leading culprit in the imbalances of our biosphere) only to see him and her replaced with a collection of humans better organized and resilient to continue the slow replacement of the last of our natural landscapes over to human landscapes. The perseverance of Kudzu Ape should never be underestimated.

So how do you reconcile this attitude with supporting illegal immigration/amnesty ets? There is a masterpiece of an argument I'm sure.

[Ibon]

The terrible irony in finally seeing the demise of the american consumer (which we have wished for and blamed as the leading culprit in the imbalances of our biosphere) only to see him and her replaced with a collection of humans better organized and resilient to continue the slow replacement of the last of our natural landscapes over to human landscapes. The perseverance of Kudzu Ape should never be underestimated.

So how do you reconcile this attitude with supporting illegal immigration/amnesty ets? There is a masterpiece of an argument I'm sure.

I can't. I am so full of contradictions I have to laugh sometimes. But these contradictions are related to the topic on humanity and ecological understanding that I just posted here.

post1002467.html#p1002467

Every individual's humanity has this quircky elasticity.

My compassion extends to immigrants because I speak fluent spanish and worked and travelled in Latin America for 15 years. So I am connected to this culture and cannot demonize them. You see how elastic our humanity is. I am the first to humbly plead guilty! !

So how do I reconcile my humanity for selective groups of humans to the misanthropic thoughts I have in reference to welcoming an increase in the death rate of our human population?

I am first and foremost an advocate of natural ecosystems over all else. That even supercedes my compassion for immigrant hispanics. Or for my fellow Americans. Or for my own species.

You can't pin me down because I can't pin myself down. This inability to identify our moral equilibrium is a classic symptom of our overshoot by the way!

[Sixstrings]

I can't. I am so full of contradictions I have to laugh sometimes.

Well this is one contradiction you should be able to resolve. What annoys me the most is that it's become politically incorrect to be anti-immigration. Heck, you can't even be anti ILLEGAL immigration without being branded a racist. The pro immigration side doesn't even use the word "immigration" anymore, it's now "migration." Notice the difference there, "migration" has the connotation of a natural event that can't or shouldn't be stopped / controlled. And more and more, we no longer use the word "illegal immigrant" but they're now "the undocumented." Words matter folks, and that's a subtle example of shifting blame. It's not their fault they entered illegally, it becomes OUR FAULT these poor folks are "undocumented." Using the term undocumented suggests they have a right to documents in the first place.

Ibon, there's a lot of good things about the Latino cultures, but you must also admit that from Mexico to Columbia to Venezuela there's also massive amounts of generational poverty, chaos, corruption and violence. As valuable as Latino culture may be, WE CANNOT TAKE IN UNLIMTED NUMBERS of these folks without becoming another Mexico ourself. If we had low unemployment and a rocking economy with good paying jobs then that would be different. But as it stands now, every H1B visa Filipino nurse who comes over is taking a job from an American. Every Mexican who picks tomatoes for the least pay possible is preventing an American from being able to do that job at a fair living wage. And every Indian H1B visa IT worker who comes over is taking a job from an American. Every one of our old jobs we ship over to China, India, and Mexico are all jobs taken from Americans.

If we continue down this path of massive offshoring and both legal and illegal immigration, we're going to end up with the kind of rank poverty you see in India, Mexico, etc. Is that really want you want for your children and grandchildren?

[efarmer]

http://markonefoods.com/

Pop open a canned peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and raise it in a toast to the American consumer.

[Ibon]

If we continue down this path of massive offshoring and both legal and illegal immigration, we're going to end up with the kind of rank poverty you see in India, Mexico, etc. Is that really want you want for your children and grandchildren?

In some of my past posts I outlined my position against immigration but it had little to do with its affects here in the USA. It's worst consequence is paradoxically in the host countries where the immigrants come from. It becomes a release valve against dealing with birth control since their excess numbers can simply leave. There is a brain drain of talent that leaves like in the philippines where trained doctors in the phillipines leave to become better paid nurses overseas and worst of all the money remittances sent back to Mexico or the Philippines allows these countries to maintain their oligarchies and not fix and reform their own economies. So basically I am against immigration for these reasons. Also every immigrant who stays in their home country ends up consuming as per the standards of their place of birth and thats one less that becomes a big american consumer once they get here.

But personally I like the abundance of hispanics today in America. Just today I went to a farmers market here in Chicago where I am visiting my aged parents and I was shooting the breeze with a Mexican and his probably illegal employees. We were telling some irreverent jokes to each other that if I would translate here would probably raise the hair on the back of some who read this thread. All oppressed people have the tendency to make up unbelievably funny jokes about their oppressors. It is a way to discharge the tension.

[Ibon]

If we continue down this path of massive offshoring and both legal and illegal immigration, we're going to end up with the kind of rank poverty you see in India, Mexico, etc. Is that really want you want for your children and grandchildren?

I have a daughter who is living in Manila at the moment and studying as a sophomore at Ateneo de Manila University. She is getting pretty street smart and is probably getting a very good education to survive well in this bleak future of America you are suggesting.

We should I guess continue to adapt to the reality of the tide instead of fighting against it. Unless our fight can really effectively change something instead f just being a way to express our frustration.

Choose your battles wisely and learn to accept and adapt to that which you cannot change.

We are socially very adaptable animals.

[Ayoob]

If we continue down this path of massive offshoring and both legal and illegal immigration, we're going to end up with the kind of rank poverty you see in India, Mexico, etc. Is that really want you want for your children and grandchildren?

But personally I like the abundance of hispanics today in America. Just today I went to a farmers market here in Chicago where I am visiting my aged parents and I was shooting the breeze with a Mexican and his probably illegal employees. We were telling some irreverent jokes to each other that if I would translate here would probably raise the hair on the back of some who read this thread. All oppressed people have the tendency to make up unbelievably funny jokes about their oppressors. It is a way to discharge the tension.

You're like these kids I went to college with. They were down with the brothers. I think they thought they were even black themselves! What they didn't realize was that the brothers weren't down with them. I remember the day they learned they weren't black. It was as though they drank deeply from the STFU river.

You're down with the Latinos. Some day... and I wonder if that day will be like the day the Latinos vote themselves a Latino Senator and Boxer goes packing... some day you're going to realize they're not down with you.

Did you read the story about the white girl that went to Haiti to champion the cause of the black man? Oh, that one's a doozy. Look it up on news.google.com.

Oh fuck it, I'll get it for you.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/201 ... are-women/

[Pretorian]

Did you read the story about the white girl that went to Haiti to champion the cause of the black man? Oh, that one's a doozy. Look it up on news.google.com.

Oh fuck it, I'll get it for you.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/201 ... are-women/

:):)

"While I take issue with my brother’s behavior, I’m grateful for the experience."'

lol. she surely earned every friction of it :)

[Pretorian]

What annoys me the most is that it's become politically incorrect to be anti-immigration. Heck, you can't even be anti ILLEGAL immigration without being branded a racist. The pro immigration side doesn't even use the word "immigration" anymore, it's now "migration."

Now how do YOU reconcile all that attitude of yours with being an anti-racist ? Like it or not , the general trend that is supported by media and the government is mongrelization of the society and annihilation of etnic groups and races. To suggest that white people in general or any white group in particular, like Scotts or Basks or Estonians have a right to remain white IS racist. Imagine Iceland for example banning coloured immigration altogether. Just think of an outcry of all the global media . They will be yelling and whining until Reyckyavik is stormed by Navy Seals and every Icelandic woman will have a mandatory weekly appointment for an intercourse with a newly made Afro-Icelander in the local clinic under doctor's supervision.
Legal and Illegal immigration is supported exactly for this reason -- to make you a Mexico or a Dominican Republic. Its will be easier to rule you and to maintain you this way.

[ohanian]

You're down with the Latinos. Some day... and I wonder if that day will be like the day the Latinos vote themselves a Latino Senator and Boxer goes packing... some day you're going to realize they're not down with you.

Did you read the story about the white girl that went to Haiti to champion the cause of the black man? Oh, that one's a doozy. Look it up on news.google.com.

Oh fuck it, I'll get it for you.

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/201 ... are-women/

I will always champion your cause Bro! - Amanda Furness-Kijera

[Sixstrings]

Now how do YOU reconcile all that attitude of yours with being an anti-racist ? Like it or not , the general trend that is supported by media and the government is mongrelization of the society and annihilation of etnic groups and races. To suggest that white people in general or any white group in particular, like Scotts or Basks or Estonians have a right to remain white IS racist. Imagine Iceland for example banning coloured immigration altogether.

That doesn't make any sense Pretorian, what you call "mongrelization" and "annihilation of ethnic groups" is simply cultural assimilation -- that's a good thing. Assuming of course we're not overwhelmed, that's when trouble starts. But if immigration is kept low enough, new ethnic groups will have time to assimilate into American mainstream culture without overwhelming and skewing our culture.

The difference between you and me is that I see this in cultural terms, whereas you seem to think a black or hispanic man somehow has his culture genetically programmed. That's just silly, people are people.. adopt a Chinese infant and raise him in an American mainstream culturual environment, and when he grows up he'll be indistinguishable from any other "white" American. If that same Chinese child were raised in a West Virginia hollow, he'd sound like a hillbilly. Raise that Chinese kid in a ghetto family, and he'll sound ghetto. It's all cultural Pretorian, none of this is programmed in the DNA.

The black community has been segregated for most of the past couple centuries, so it's been very hard for them to assimilate into the mainstream American culture. Not that complete "assimilation" should even happen -- you won't admit it, but black culture has done a lot of good for this country. Real cultural achievements like the invention of jazz, gospel music, blues, which all led to rock n' roll. But of course there's another side to black culture and that's what most white folks have a problem with -- the ghetto culture. But in truth, ghettos have more to do with generational poverty than race. Martin Luther King realized this shortly before his death, that just as blacks have been locked into generational poverty, there are also pockets of whites who've been trapped for generations. Cultural dysfunction, regardless of race, is really all about economics -- a fair living wage, adequate education, an attainable middle class.

Getting back to illegal immigration, and this is where maybe I am conlficted.. I value Mexican culture, but I just don't want to live there. It's not fair to be labeled racist just because you don't want your home town to turn into Tijuana. American culture should have every bit as much right to exist as Mexican culture, and we shouldn't feel guilty about wanting to preserve our own culture. I'm not racist, but I also just do not like Latino gangs. I'm sorry, I don't like living around that and I never will. Over the past few years, my town has developed a major latino drug gang problem. Years ago, we had nothing like this at all -- it really sucks.

So I don't know, does that make me racist? I really don't think I am since I see the issue as cultural, and my only complaint is that we've had too much latino immigration too fast. A racist thinks culture is in the DNA, whereas I understand that as long as we aren't overwhelmed then latinos can assimilate into mainstream American culture just as every other immigrant group has. So the problem really is just too much immigration too fast, at a time when we're already short on jobs and states are bankrupt.

[Ayoob]

People are not all the same. This is ridiculous.

Asian - White - Black is the general spread. Asians come to sexual maturity the latest, blacks the earliest, whites in the middle. Same for crime rates. Asians are the lowest, whites in the middle, with blacks blasting through the stratosphere.

In the Israeli kibbutz, where the family unit was destroyed and gender differences among children were ignored, girls made dolls to play with and boys made weapons to play with, both groups ignoring the gender nonspecific toys. Girls wanted to shower alone, boys wanted to see the girls.

Look at rape, murder, theft, conformity, creativity, they're all dominant in certain races and buried in others.

The world is made out of stuff and so are people. We have characteristics that make us what we are based on what we are made out of.

[Pretorian]

Now how do YOU reconcile all that attitude of yours with being an anti-racist ? Like it or not , the general trend that is supported by media and the government is mongrelization of the society and annihilation of etnic groups and races. To suggest that white people in general or any white group in particular, like Scotts or Basks or Estonians have a right to remain white IS racist. Imagine Iceland for example banning coloured immigration altogether.

That doesn't make any sense Pretorian, what you call "mongrelization" and "annihilation of ethnic groups" is simply cultural assimilation -- that's a good thing.

Sold, embrace your Mexicality then Sixstring. If you think that having 100s of thousands of years apart in different environments and having different human species as a co-contributors in a gene pool can come up to only some cultural differences, that intelect and hormonal levels are a cultural thing too, then learn Spanish and hook up your daughter with a decent African-American while you still can.
People are people? Well animals are animals and yet despite of being an animal you kill thousands if not millions of them every day of your life.