[hope_full]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/dpp/news/lo ... 0811-am-sd

Just saw the blurb on the news. Apparently, things got really ugly when people got tired of waiting for a form that'd put them on the list for Section 8 (government subsidized) housing. One woman said she'd been trying to get into Section 8 program for 17 years. What would happen if she put that kind of energy into improving her lot in life, rather than putting so much effort into squeezing into an open spot at the trough?

Then again, I'm just a poor sap, self-employed, long-term small business owner.

Sigh.

[mlit]

seems similar to scenes of refugees lined up for food being tossed from the back of relief truck

[Sixstrings]

30,000 line up for housing vouchers, some get rowdy

Thirty thousand people showed up to receive Section 8 housing applications in East Point Wednesday, suffering through hours in the hot sun, angry flare-ups in the crowd and lots of frustration and confusion for a chance to receive a government-subsidized apartment.

The massive event sometimes descended into a chaotic mob scene filled with anger and impatience. Some 62 people needed medical attention and 20 of them were transported to a hospital, authorities said. A baby went into a seizure in the heat and was stabilized at a hospital. People were removed on stretchers and when a throng of people who had been waiting hours in a line were told to move to another line, people started pushing, shoving and cursing, witnesses said.

Still, officials of East Point declared the day a success.

(snip)

Kim Lemish, executive director of the East Point Housing Authority, said the event marked the first time the city has offered Section 8 housing applications since 2002. The waiting list that lasted eight years had depleted, she said, and the agency was beginning a new one.
http://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta/30-00030-000-line-up-589653.html

Welcome to Third World America -- even though a baby had a seizure and 20 people were transported to the hospital, "officials of East Point declared the day a success."

You know, it really shouldn't be rocket science for our society to build some affordable apartments for the poor. They have public housing in the UK, and from what I gather there aren't 12 year waiting lists and lines of 30,000 people at these once a decade "time to make a new waiting list" events.

I wonder how Canada handles public housing.. is the US the only firstworld nation that does it this way?

[Pretorian]

seems similar to scenes of refugees lined up for food being tossed from the back of relief truck

same balls different angle.. oh , sorry: same Negroes different location

[deMolay]

Just heard on the news, that the funds for the 26B bailout of Federal Public Service workers yesterday, or vote buying whatever. That the funds were taken from the Food Stamp Program. I imagine folks will like that one as well.

[ian807]

I wonder how Canada handles public housing.. is the US the only firstworld nation that does it this way?

I don't know about Canada, but we in the USA are stupid bordering on criminal when we do it.

First, we build large apartment buildings so we can put all the poor people together so they only interact with other poor people and build up a nice solid culture of poverty.

We build these buildings in the crappiest area of town where there are few services and grocery stores, banks, doctors, etc. so those in the projects must spend precious money and time traveling long distances to bank, buy basic groceries, get medical assistance and so on. Since there is little residential tax base to support the schools, it's a guarantee that schools in the area will be underfunded and staffed by teachers who can get no other work, and who rotate out as quickly as possible.

After that, we put the nastiest, most borderline cops we can in the area to regularly beat and terrorize the inhabitants (ala the "Training Day" movie). While we call it "affordable housing" what it really becomes is "minimum security prison." This is the invisible cage in which the project inhabitants live, and everyone else avoids.

Of course, spreading out affordable housing to multiple neighborhoods, allowing poor children to attend schools with wealthier ones, where they learn about money and responsibility and correct behavior and health care and so on wouldn't eliminate the problem, but at least it would be a strategy to correct the situation long term.

We don't think long term, of course. America is the country of the quick fix and "not in my back yard."

[Ludi]

First, we build large apartment buildings so we can put all the poor people together so they only interact with other poor people and build up a nice solid culture of poverty.

If they weren't lazy and stupid they would "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "paddle their own canoe" out of there. It's the American way!

[deMolay]

Put them in the empty McMansions, and give them garden seed and a hoe. Tell them what is coming into the train station.

[Sixstrings]

Put them in the empty McMansions, and give them garden seed and a hoe. Tell them what is coming into the train station.

That's not how it works in a Depression. Homes sit empty and bank-owned, while the homeless sleep in tents or riot just to get on a eight year waiting list.

That's what gets me the most about this crowd of 30,000, they went through all that just to get on a years-long waiting list.

[Pretorian]

spreading out affordable housing to multiple neighborhoods, allowing poor children to attend schools with wealthier ones, where they learn about money and responsibility and correct behavior and health care

let me guess , you have no kids. Or perhaps you do but there are no ghetto anywhere near so they can be bussed there for an advanced expierence

[ian807]

First, we build large apartment buildings so we can put all the poor people together so they only interact with other poor people and build up a nice solid culture of poverty.

If they weren't lazy and stupid they would "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" and "paddle their own canoe" out of there. It's the American way!

Yes, I'm sure that every poorly nourished, beaten, badly educated child of average intelligence with chronic diseases like severe depression can just "pull themselves up." Yup. You bet. Sounds like a plan.

Of course the one that does do this makes the news. The other 99999 don't.

[Pretorian]

Put them in the empty McMansions, and give them garden seed and a hoe. Tell them what is coming into the train station.

That's not how it works in a Depression. Homes sit empty and bank-owned, while the homeless sleep in tents or riot just to get on a eight year waiting list.

So when your bank will tell you that your savings went to fund such an admirable idea like giving out mansions to drug-addicts and lazy-bags ( with a dozen of poor, innocent children of course), you'll be ok with that?
You know, you cant take your money out right now , and rent/buy something for some racially challenged family right now.

[Ludi]

The other 99999 don't.

Their own fault for being born drug-addicted lazy-bags.



Apparently.

[Sixstrings]

So when your bank will tell you that your savings went to fund such an admirable idea like giving out mansions to drug-addicts and lazy-bags ( with a dozen of poor, innocent children of course), you'll be ok with that?
You know, you cant take your money out right now , and rent/buy something for some racially challenged family right now.

If we can spend trillions of dollars on war, would it be such a bad thing to build some decent affordable housing?

[Outcast_Searcher]

seems similar to scenes of refugees lined up for food being tossed from the back of relief truck

same balls different angle.. oh , sorry: same Negroes different location

Why is it that refugees (implying people who have been massively impacted by a natural disaster) are lumped into the same bucket as people who expect government housing because of their long term poverty situation? (Floods, earthquakes, etc. are very different than, say, 30 years of acting irresponsibly, for example).

[Outcast_Searcher]

So when your bank will tell you that your savings went to fund such an admirable idea like giving out mansions to drug-addicts and lazy-bags ( with a dozen of poor, innocent children of course), you'll be ok with that?
You know, you cant take your money out right now , and rent/buy something for some racially challenged family right now.

If we can spend trillions of dollars on war, would it be such a bad thing to build some decent affordable housing?

Six, I agree completely with your point about stupidity and war spending.

On the other hand, when is it enough? We've been fighting the "war on poverty" now since (at least) the 30's, and all we hear from the left is that it's never enough. We've gone beyond being concerned about absolute poverty (like not having food and housing) to decrying relative poverty (Joe feels bad because he can't drive a $200,000 car and watch a $10,000 HDTV. I kid you not - they seriously discuss absolute vs. relative poverty in the Wiki poverty article, (like relative poverty is an evil caused by successful people)).

Would it be enough if you made everyone have the same amount of money and took away ALL incentive to work? Oh wait. That didn't work so well in Communist countries.

[Sixstrings]

Wow, watch this video.. it's craziness. Some people said they drove all the way from Tennessee, some camped out for days beforehand, one lady in line said she has cancer, even a baby was born in the crowd:

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpps/money/Hundreds-Hope-for-Federal-Housing-Assistance-20100811-am-sd_9118102

Some pics:



http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/metro/atlanta/east-point-vouchers/

Bottom line here is that the elite powers that be in this country have no idea how desperate people are.

[Sixstrings]

Six, I agree completely with your point about stupidity and war spending.

On the other hand, when is it enough? We've been fighting the "war on poverty" now since (at least) the 30's, and all we hear from the left is that it's never enough.

Actually that's not correct. The left hasn't been what it used to be ever since Bill Clinton ushered in the era of "New Democrats" (in other words, Republicrats). Clinton and Gingrich teamed up to dismantle the social safety net. It worked for a while until the false McJobs economy tanked and now we have a full on Depression without the safety net of years past.

But I get what you're saying, the concern about providing public assistance is that it encourages generational poverty. This does happen, you can see it all over the South and on Indian reservations. But what's the alternative? Must we really have American citizens sleeping on the streets? Is it really impossible for us to ensure every citizen has adequate, affordable housing?

And on the flipside of the generational poverty debate, why is it that nobody is ever bothered by generational wealth? Aren't these idle, old-money rich essentially useless? They really don't produce anything of value any more than the generationally poor do. When you don't have to work because of a trust fund or old money, you're just using resources without giving back.

So yeah, I agree that a capitalist society will ALWAYS have poverty. But that doesn't mean we can't do a better job of caring for the poor than what we do. Remember, bad stuff happens to middle class folks too. Things like unexpected disability, or getting laid off during a "jobless recovery."

We've gone beyond being concerned about absolute poverty (like not having food and housing) to decrying relative poverty (Joe feels bad because he can't drive a $200,000 car and watch a $10,000 HDTV. I kid you not - they seriously discuss absolute vs. relative poverty in the Wiki poverty article, (like relative poverty is an evil caused by successful people)).

All a person really needs is food, water, a sense of belonging to a community, and some kind of shelter during harsh weather. Everything else really is relative, poverty is all about psychology. In materialistic terms, tribespeople in the Amazon are dirt poor. But thing is, they don't know they're poor -- they don't have to look at McMansions all around them, and they're not inundated by 24/7 consumer propaganda that says you're worthless in this society if you can't buy stuff. Deny it all you want, but I'm telling you consumerism, shopping, spending money and keeping up with the Joneses is what our society is all about.

Would it be enough if you made everyone have the same amount of money and took away ALL incentive to work? Oh wait. That didn't work so well in Communist countries.

That's the old joke about communism, that everyone gets to be equally miserable. So yeah communism as we think of it doesn't work, but we can't conceive of a workable communism because capitalist consumerism is so ingrained in our brains.

Weren't the Native Americans pretty much communist? They seemed happy enough before we came along. They had no concept of "owning land." They shared food with each other. Everyone in the tribe had shelter.

To sum up.. no we shouldn't go communist, but with all the vast wealth in this country there's no good reason why we can't build affordable apartments for the poor. They've done it in Europe, and they're still capitalist, so we can do it too.

[Kristen]

Im amazed at the lack of intelligence in some of these responses. Must we condemn the poor to categories such as drug addicts, lazy parasites, and failures of life? Have you ever made a mistake that was disastrous to your economic well being?

There is such a huge supply of real estate that perhaps we should let them stay there!

"Oh but Kristen, they will bring in drugs and crime."

Like there is a big difference of immoralness between a poor person smoking dope and a house wife popping Klonopin every few hours.

For the record the United States does not have a capitalist economy! It has a mixed one! And the whole idea that you need incentives like status symbols to make a person work hard is abhorrent. For one thing materialism has only brought misery to those who adhere to it. Secondly these useless people you have insulted have hardly been given a chance.

Maybe one day a fit of irony well deliver itself upon those with such prejiduce and lack of any compassion.

[SeaGypsy]

I would rather live in a teepee. Or a groovy housebout made from recycled stuff. Or a salvaged yacht. etc. etc. The appalling thing here is the lack of imagination, IMO.