[Ludi]

'August 16, 2010 4:31 PM
Harry Reid: Ground Zero Mosque "Should be Built Some Place Else"

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid was prompted today to state that he thinks the so-called "ground zero mosque" should be built somewhere else.

Republicans have threatened to make the mosque debate a 2010 campaign issue, and a few candidates -- including Reid's challenger Sharron Angle -- are beginning to do so.

"The First Amendment protects freedom of religion," Reid's spokesperson said in a statement today. "Senator Reid respects that but thinks that the mosque should be built some place else.'

What an ass. "Freedom of religion" my butt.

[eastbay]

I remember as a kid some guy applied for a permit intending to open a national socialist bookstore right next to a synagogue in San Francisco. They would have been neighbors.

It would have been lawful and constitutional and all that rot, but he was 'convinced' to open his store elsewhere. Sometimes common sense has to kick in. And in that case it did. I hope it does in this situation too. There must be another place in the USA for a mosque to locate.

[Ludi]

Can I say "Harry Reid is a bigot"?

ad hom deleted

Do you know many Muslims died during 911? At least one while rescuing people from the building?

A community center with a prayer room (open to anyone) is offensive to whom?

Can you explain to me how common sense figures in to denying people the right to freedom of religionad hom deleted?

Please be civil and play nice. This is a friendly reminder to all

[Ludi]

deleted

[Expatriot]

1st, I don't believe that Muslims were responsible for 911, but EVEN IF I assume that to be true, here's where we're at . . .

. . .
a group of black panther thugs kill a white kid in a vicious beating. Later, some people argue that an NAACP office should not be built at the location of the beating.

a group of radical Jews kill an Arab kid and set the body on fire. Later, some people argue that a Jewish cultural center should not be built at the location.

Bottom line is that Harry is using the classic line in a wonderful new permutation - "I'm not a racist, I just don't want my daughter dating black guys."

It's not even a question of religion.

It's a question of holding an entire group responsible for the (alleged) actions of a few. Simple as that.

That's racism, no matter how it is packaged.

Racism is one of the vicious biological impulses of humans that should remind us all, regularly, that we are, at heart, vicious, self-serving animals looking out for our own, because our own are our genes.

[Tanada]

Legally and constitutionally the Mosque is fine, however if the stated purpose is community outreach it sure seems as if they could find a more sensitive approach to take. After all the only church destroyed in the attack still has not been rebuilt because of red tape and disagreements between the City, the Port Authority and the Church itself.

As I understand it from the NYT article the building to be demolished in favor of the Mosque construction was damaged by debris from one of the aircraft which hit the WTC. Putting the Mosque in that spot is insensitive at best, and a great many people who live nearby find it offensive. I am neutral on it myself, they legally have the right to do it but common sense tells me their stated goal of community outreach is bogus if it is causing this much upheaval. That being the case one must ask what their real intentions are if their stated intentions are invalid.

[Sixstrings]

This is just politics.. Harry Reid is in a little trouble in Nevada and just running to the cultural right on an easy issue.

As for the mosque itself.. for all the broohaha I don't know much about it. I think it's actually a "cultural center," so does that mean people won't be praying there as in a mosque?

I also don't know about the group who wants to build it, and what their motivations are. It's odd how these details aren't being looked into, just the drama of the "omg a mosque at ground zero."

So I think that's what matters here, what kind of people want to build this thing and what are their intentions. And it may be a grim thought, but wouldn't having a mosque at the site provide some protection? Perhaps muslim extremist nuts wouldn't attack it again if there's a mosque there.

[Tyler_JC]

The feelings of the 9/11 victims' families matter to many Americans (myself included). Would building a Japanese culture center next to Pearl Harbor in 1944 be a good idea? Would building a topless bar in Mecca be a good idea? How about that Nazi bookstore next to the synagogue?

Just because you have the RIGHT to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

One of the goals of the Islamic community center is to improve the public image of Islam.

From a public relations prospective, they failed. Miserably.

Sometimes it's a good idea to think about the feelings of others when exercising your rights.

[dissident]

And it may be a grim thought, but wouldn't having a mosque at the site provide some protection? Perhaps muslim extremist nuts wouldn't attack it again if there's a mosque there.

If only it was this easy. The fanatics are prepared to kill fellow faithful and destroy mosques as evidenced by many events in the middle east.

[dinopello]

The feelings of the 9/11 victims' families matter to many Americans (myself included). Would building a Japanese culture center next to Pearl Harbor in 1944 be a good idea? Would building a topless bar in Mecca be a good idea? How about that Nazi bookstore next to the synagogue?

Or building a Baptist church near a hospital.

[Pretorian]

Just because you have the RIGHT to do something doesn't mean you SHOULD do something.

I for one do not understand all this commotion about the mosque. Its what, 3 blocks away? Not far enough? How far is far enough? 6 blocks? 12? 24? and why? How do you figure what is far enough and what is not? Furthermore, I am pretty sure there were other things that were similar between attackers ( I mean the ones that went on board, not the ones that didnt) aside of all of them being muslim. They were all Arabs for example; they were foreigners; they had dark hair; I'm sure most of them were lactose intolerant as most of non-whites are; and yeah, they were non-whites; or here is the one: ALL OF THEM, every last one of them, WERE SEMITES!!!!! Lets blame this thing on SEMITES! Lets ban all SEMITIC religious and cultural activities within N number of blocks from ground zero!! I bet THAT wasnt expected by anti-muslim propaganda peddlers!

Dont you think its a little bit cheesy that the common trait that got picked on is EXACTLY the one that serves best to the very, very special people that also happened to be sponsors of all anti-muslim hysteria in this country and around the world?

Speaking of which. Where exactly was all this anti-muslim, anti-arab hysteria in mass-media before the conflict between Jews and Arabs in Palestina?? Huh? Huh? Huh?

[Expatriot]

The feelings of the 9/11 victims' families matter to many Americans (myself included). Would building a Japanese culture center next to Pearl Harbor in 1944 be a good idea? Would building a topless bar in Mecca be a good idea? How about that Nazi bookstore next to the synagogue?

Problem is your analogies are not analogous.

When the Japanese bombed PH, they bombed it as a nation. The attack was by Japan. So holding Japan, and by extension, all Japanese who aren't objectors, accountable for the deed would be reasonable.

Regarding a topless bar in Mecca, it's an issue of morality, not race.

Regarding a Nazi bookstore, you're talking about a group for which all members are anti-jew.

In the case at hand, if you believe the official story, two dozen men committed a terrorist act. That's it.

Here's your position, as I see it - you believe that the men who allegedly bombed the WTC represent the 1 billion Muslims in the world, and, therefore, it's reasonable that any adherents to Islam should be restricted in their behavior.

Holding 1 billion people accountable for the alleged acts of 2 dozen radicals is . . . racism.

From my perspective, the 911 families who believe the official story (by no means all of them) are being racist (and ignorant) when they want to hold 1 billion Muslims accountable for the acts of 2 dozen members.

To give in to racism and ignorance to mollify the feelings of the families would be, IMO, giving in to racism.

[Ludi]

How far away from Ground Zero should the new cultural center/mosque be built, in you-all's opinions? How many blocks away is appropriate?

"The New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission — "responsible for identifying and designating the City's landmarks and the buildings in the City's historic districts" — has decided not to assign landmark status to a building on Park Place, two blocks north of Ground Zero.

After the board's unanimous vote, its chairman, Robert B. Tierney, said the structure, which previously home to a Burlington Coat Factory, "does not rise to the level of an individual landmark."

Having surmounted the hurdle, a developer is now free to change or demolish the 152-year-old structure, clearing the way for the construction of a controversial $100 million, 13-story Islamic community center, which would include a mosque."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... ity-center

[AgentR]

Wow. someone got riled!

No really, people's reaction to the mosque in question is an indicator of how much they associate the religion of the attackers with the actions of the attackers. Unfortunately, humans do this a lot, guilt by association, and its almost always wrong. Just as it is wrong in this particular instance.

Will some sleezebag in Pakistan cheer and prance when the mosque opens? Probably. Do we want *OUR CHOICES* dictated by the unstable, corrupt emotions of said sleezebag on the other side of the world? Heck no. Our laws of OUR CHOOSING, which predate said sleezebag's corrupt birth, say that Imam Whoever can build a mosque, casino, or a pizza parlor wherever the zoning/historic ordinances allow anyone else to build any other type of religious building, family fun gambling center, or diner.

On the other part of the argument, about its wisdom, I understand the objections, but they always seem to be based upon this associative guilt of a religion as a whole being responsible for the actions of a few members who happen to have been corrupted by a lust for hate and blood. I reject this association. If an evangelical protestant does something vile, then claims it represents his faith; that does NOT DEMONSTRATE that Evangelical Protestantism is evil. If a secular humanist does something vile, then claims it is a true representation of secular humanist philosophy, that again, does not demonstrate any vileness upon the part of secular humanism.

Do not permit, in your hearts, the actions of the corrupt to mar the reputations of those who are just.

[Pops]

I agree with the "how far is far enough" question.

If they aren't welcome, just come out and say it and quit beating around the bush - kick 'em out of the country altogether 5 blocks or 50 makes no difference.

The WTC families sensibilities need to be protected? Most communities in this country have lost a neighbor to a self styled Muslim martyr, why shouldn't their sensibilities be protected as well?

And really, does intolerance honor the people who died because of intolerance?

Either rights are inalienable or they aren't.

[eastbay]

Common sense, Pops, isn't always a black and white issue.

It's about finding a solution that makes ..., well, 'sense', and placing the mosque where it's planned doesn't. It's clearly an act of unkind provocation. It's a mean-spirited and bigoted move designed clearly to rub salt in the wound. There are a million other places to put this structure and they chose this one. How cruel. How vicious. It's inexcusable.

[Ludi]

It's a mean-spirited and bigoted move designed clearly to rub salt in the wound. There are a million other places to put this structure and they chose this one. How cruel. How vicious. It's inexcusable.

Mean and vicious to exercise their Constitutional rights? The religion of Islam did not destroy the world trade center. Why should Muslims suffer particularly?

The WTC families sensibilities need to be protected?

Muslim Americans lost family members at the WTC. I guess their sensibilities don't count.

[Ludi]

Do not permit, in your hearts, the actions of the corrupt to mar the reputations of those who are just.

Thank you.

[Expatriot]

I agree with the "how far is far enough" question.

If they aren't welcome, just come out and say it and quit beating around the bush - kick 'em out of the country altogether 5 blocks or 50 makes no difference.

The WTC families sensibilities need to be protected? Most communities in this country have lost a neighbor to a self styled Muslim martyr, why shouldn't their sensibilities be protected as well?

And really, does intolerance honor the people who died because of intolerance?

Either rights are inalienable or they aren't.

Very nice summation of why this is not, in the end, about the location of the mosque, but rather about intolerance of a group based on the actions of a few members of that group.

[eastbay]

Cruel and vicious. Evil.

They should recognize the widespread and nearly universal justifiable outrage and just build it somewhere else. The USA is large. There must be a less controversial and better suited location. They selected this site with provocation in mind. It's a stick poked in our collective eyes. And people are falling for it. Obama may 'fall' for it too.

This is about the utter lack of kindness of the entire group when we hear such a powerful silence from them all. What shame. This terrible decision will only serve to further erode American acceptance of Muslims.