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History of American Progressivism through Literature

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History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 17:15:54

Upton Sinclair's The Jungle (1906)
Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle to expose the appalling working conditions in the meat-packing industry. His description of diseased, rotten, and contaminated meat shocked the public and led to new federal food safety laws.

Before the turn of the 20th century, a major reform movement had emerged in the United States. Known as progressives, the reformers were reacting to problems caused by the rapid growth of factories and cities. Progressives at first concentrated on improving the lives of those living in slums and in getting rid of corruption in government.

By the beginning of the new century, progressives had started to attack huge corporations like Standard Oil, U.S. Steel, and the Armour meat-packing company for their unjust practices. The progressives revealed how these companies eliminated competition, set high prices, and treated workers as "wage slaves."

The progressives differed, however, on how best to control these big businesses. Some progressives wanted to break up the large corporations with anti-monopoly laws. Others thought state or federal government regulation would be more effective. A growing minority argued in favor of socialism, the public ownership of industries. The owners of the large industries dismissed all these proposals: They demanded that they be left alone to run their businesses as they saw fit.

Theodore Roosevelt was the president when the progressive reformers were gathering strength. Assuming the presidency in 1901 after the assassination of William McKinley, he remained in the White House until 1909. Roosevelt favored large-scale enterprises. "The corporation is here to stay," he declared. But he favored government regulation of them "with due regard of the public as a whole."

Roosevelt did not always approve of the progressive-minded journalists and other writers who exposed what they saw as corporate injustices. When David Phillips, a progressive journalist, wrote a series of articles that attacked U.S. senators of both political parties for serving the interests of big business rather than the people, President Roosevelt thought Phillips had gone too far. He referred to him as a man with a "muck-rake."

Even so, Roosevelt had to admit, "There is filth on the floor, and it must be scraped up with the muck-rake." The term "muckraker" caught on. It referred to investigative writers who uncovered the dark side of society.

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Sinclair Lewis' Babbitt (1922)
By the 1920s, the United States was already concluding the process described by historian Olivier Zunz as “making America corporate.” Thus, if the continued popularity of Lewis's characters is any indication, despite the many intervening, superficial advances and changes in technology, in Babbitt's fictional world one can still recognize much of today's, non-fiction one.

In the characterization of the work Babbitt does for a living, Lewis implies a critique of capitalism. In the novel's opening chapter, we are told that Babbitt makes “nothing in particular, neither butter nor shoes nor poetry,” but that he is “nimble in the calling of selling houses for more than people could afford to pay.” Likewise, while he is home sick in bed, Babbitt, too, reflects on his career; he exclaims to himself that his work is “mechanical business — a brisk selling of badly built houses.”

Historically significant is the author's use, throughout, of the political word “liberal.” The book was written not long after the project of “new liberalism” began, and the term had not yet congealed in the United States as a definition of a specific brand of ideology belonging to centre left-wing politics. Babbitt’s warped interpretation of the word, and his (and other characters’) equally skewed practical application of it, are examples of one of the humorous literary devices in which Lewis uses satire to illustrate and simplify complex ideas.

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Sinclair Lewis' It can't Happen Here (1935)
Berzelius "Buzz" Windrip, a charismatic and power-hungry politician, is elected President of the United States on a populist platform, promising to restore the country to prosperity and greatness, and, more importantly, promising each citizen $5,000 a year (adjusted for inflation as of 2009, this would be approximately $77,000). Once in power, however, he becomes a dictator; he outlaws dissent, puts his political enemies in concentration camps, and creates a paramilitary force called the Minute Men who terrorize the citizens. One of his first actions as President is to make changes to the Constitution which give him sole power over the country, rendering Congress obsolete. This is met by protest from the congress as well as outraged citizens, but Windrip declares a state of martial law and, with the help of his Minute Men, throws the protesters in jail. As Windrip dismantles democracy, most Americans either support him and his Corpo Regime wholeheartedly or reassure themselves that fascism "can't happen" in America (hence the book's title).

After another coup, ousting Sarason in favor of General Haik, the Corpo Regime's power slowly starts seeping away and the government desperately tries to find a way to keep the people happy with the Regime. They decide to stir up patriotic fervor by slandering Mexico in the state-run newspapers, deciding an all-out invasion of the country will rally the American people around the government. But the resulting draft of 5 million men for the invasion splits the country into factions: those pro-war and loyal to the Corpo government, and those anti-war who now see that they have been manipulated for years. The story ends with Jessup in Minnesota, working with Walt Trowbridge, leader of the opposition movement, to end the Fascist regime's hold on the American people.

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“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross". - Sinclair Lewis

This gives a good account of the legislative and legal history.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 21:35:18

Too bad Progressivism is Fascism wrapped in the flag, isn't it?
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Ludi » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 21:47:55

Tanada wrote:Too bad Progressivism is Fascism wrapped in the flag, isn't it?



Progressives are Fascists how, exactly?
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Tanada » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 22:08:30

Ludi wrote:
Tanada wrote:Too bad Progressivism is Fascism wrapped in the flag, isn't it?



Progressives are Fascists how, exactly?


Who locked up German Americans in WW I and WW II without trials into camps where they could be concentrated as Enemies of the State?

Who locked away the Japanese Americans in the same fashion in WW II?

Who partnered with GM and Chrysler during the 1930's making them quasi-government companies? Who bought Company Stock in those same companies in 2009? Who bailed out the Banking industry in the 1930's and in the 2000's? Who created the Federal Reserve banking structure in the 1910's, empowered it in the 1930's and unleashed it in 2009?

Perhaps I need to ask Ludi, what is your definition of a Fascist government? Mine is a government that is tied in with business interests for the mutual benefit of the governing Elites and the business interests. A government that proclaims all young people have rights while at the same time convincing them to go to war for the business interests instead of for national defense. A government where the political elites tell the average citizens they will be taken care of while at the same time they only care for those they are partnered with in the halls of power.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 22:15:43

Babbit was the sort of person we associate with the current right wing incarnation of the Chamber of Commerce, and anyone who doesn't want whatever crap they are selling this year is a goddam Commie and probably an atheist. He is absolutely committed to defending the status quo, advocated Puritanism for other people, had a 1900's midwestern small town ignorance about the rest of world, and managed to accumulate quite a bit of money without acquiring any trace of culture. He's today's stereotype "flyover country" Republican.

The novel even gave rise to the word "Babittry" - A narrow-minded, self-satisfied person with an unthinking attachment to middle-class values and materialism. I've always also associated it with a phony sort of civic booster and huckster (like Kramer yelling "Buy Bear Stearns" just before it collapsed) that would screw people in shady real estate deals and try to ruin someone if they complained.

Babbit was a satire of a very self deluded and hypocritical person, and if he thinks of himself as a Jazz Age "liberal," it's because he likes to drink despite Prohibition (which only applies to poor people), and because his religion is meaningless except maybe as an excuse to dislike Jews if he ever met one. If he called himself "liberal" then he would be a perfect metaphor for Glenn Beck trying to co-opt MLK, a 50:50 mix of self delusion and fraud.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 22:52:53

Tanada wrote:Perhaps I need to ask Ludi, what is your definition of a Fascist government?
You may want to read Umberto Eco's essay on his definition of what is a Fascist governmentor movement, because he grew up under Mussolini. He has 14 points, and this remark from 1995 seems startlingly prescient of the Tea Party:
There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be represented and accepted as the Voice of the People...we no longer need the Piazza Venezia in Rome or the Nuremberg Stadium...
Indeed you can look at Eco's 14 points and try to pick one that doesn't apply to the Tea Party.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 23:56:36

Image

Fascism started when the socialists who supported "national socialism" split from the socialists who supported "international socialism" during WWI. Socialists who supported national socialism, like Mussolini, enlisted and fought for their countries in WWI. International socialists refused to fight for their countries. That was the only difference.

The two groups of national socialists and international socialists had a classic leftist schism and the groups proceeded to call each other "revisionists" and "rightists" and other names, but both fascists and socialists clearly belong on the left. They both FUNDAMENTALLY believe in centralized government control and once in power often are indistinguishable from one-another. For instance Saddam Hussein was the leader of the Iraqi Socialist Party (the Baath party), and he was recognized as a fellow socialist by the socialist international, but Saddam was clearly a classic fascist and his "socialist" party carried out mass murder campaigns and genocidal policies against the Kurds and Sunnis that would've made Hitler proud.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 00:03:18

Tanada wrote:Who created the Federal Reserve banking structure in the 1910's...Perhaps I need to ask Ludi, what is your definition of a Fascist government? Mine is a government that is tied in with business interests for the mutual benefit of the governing Elites and the business interests. A government that proclaims all young people have rights while at the same time convincing them to go to war for the business interests instead of for national defense. A government where the political elites tell the average citizens they will be taken care of while at the same time they only care for those they are partnered with in the halls of power.


Looking back over history it is fascinating to see the degree by which the plans of very powerful men alter the course of nations. But as interesting as it is, it is even more stunning to realize that these ideas are rarely, if ever, the product of middle class thinking.

The creation of the Federal Reserve was no different. It all began in a New Jersey train station on a night in November 1910.

Leaving from a Hoboken Railway station were a group of the nation's leading financiers and a powerful Congressmen and his staff. And although few of them knew it at time they were headed for Georgia, 1000 miles away.

Their mission was a secret and in the end it would change the nation forever.

And while a few reporters suspiciously witnessed the gathering of the powerful, none of them bothered to report on the exodus. The men, they were told, were simply going duck hunting.

But to be sure this was no ordinary hunting trip. The railcars themselves were sealed and the blinds were drawn. And each member of "the hunting party" was instructed to at no time to use his own last name or to use that of any of the others.

And while they stopped short of outright disguises, their intentions were clear-their identities were to remain secret.

Leading the ultra secret trip to Georgia was Senator Nelson Aldrich, head of the National Monetary Commission. Joining the Senator was A. Piatt Andrew, Assistant Secretary of the Treasury, Frank Vanderlip, President of National City Bank of New York, Henry P. Davison, senior partner of J.P. Morgan Company, and generally regarded as Morgan's personal emissary; Charles D. Norton, president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York, Benjamin Strong, also known as a lieutenant of J.P. Morgan; and Paul Warburg, a recent immigrant from Germany who had joined the banking house of Kuhn, Loeb and Company of New York as a partner.

And while these names may be hardly recognizable today, in their day these were powerful and well known men indeed. And as amazing as it seems they represented approximately ¼ of the world's wealth.

In fact, Paul Warburg himself was one of the richest men in the world and even served as the basis of the character Daddy Warbucks portrayed in "Little Orphan Annie."

Heading south that day, this famous entourage finally reached its destination, Jekyll Island, Georgia. And it was here, on an island off the coast of Georgia that our nation was changed forever.

Now owned by the state, the island was once the private playground of the rich and famous. Its members included names like Astor, Vanderbilt, Morgan and Pulitzer.

Needless to say the club was both incredibly ritzy and quite exclusive.

Unbelievably, even Winston Churchill himself was once refused admission to the haven.

And once ensconced in their private and discreet playground, the rich and the powerful went to work. And when they were finished some seven days later they had created the plan that would become the Federal Reserve Bank.

And a simple plan it was because essentially it created a national central bank comprised of 12 regional banking systems.

Not surprisingly it was modeled after the central banks of Europe. Paul Warburg knew them well and was its main architect.

But, of course, they were very careful not to call it that since the public was rightfully wary of central banks themselves. In fact, its very name was the topic of much discussion.

And after much debate it was named in such a way as to give the public the idea that the bank was just another government agency.

In truth, of course, it was not because the bank that they created was a private corporation. And while this fact is not widely known it was a notion that was affirmed by the Supreme Court in 1982.

In Lewis v. United States680 F.2d 1239 (9th Cir. 1982) , for instance, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that "the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations."

So it was out of these secret meetings that the control of the nation's money supply was handed over to the very bankers and private corporations that earlier generations of Americans, including Thomas Jefferson and Andrew Jackson found to be so onerous.

Because some three years after the secret meeting, the plan conceived on Jekyll island became law.

That's because, on December 22, 1913, while many members of Congress were home for Christmas, the Federal Reserve Act was rammed through Congress and was later signed into law by President Wilson.

Even President Wilson, who some say owed his presidency to the very men that met so secretly in Georgia some 96 years ago, came to realize that.

Because at a later date, Wilson himself admitted with remorse, when referring to the Fed that, "I have unwittingly ruined my country."

And going even further Woodrow Wilson wrote this in 1916:

"Our system of credit is concentrated (in the Federal Reserve System). The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities, are in the hands of a few men."

Wilson, of course, was right.

link

Your outrage is commendable from a progressive point of view, but misdirected. If that is what you truly believe, you are fighting on the wrong side.

Who bailed out the Banking industry?

The Bush Administration. It's amazing you don't remember that. It was also the Bush Administration that created the problem in the first place.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 00:50:16

Plantagenet wrote:Image

Jonah is a Nazi apologist. He's so tied in knots that he says that American skinheads and the KKK are liberals. I'd love to see him try to explain that to some skinheads and curbed. Jonah has jumped the shark tank many a time, but he folded the Liberal Fascism blog shortly after he tried to argue that the white supremacist who shot the black guard at the Holocaust memorial was really a liberal by definition. He also said that Hitler was an antisemite, but that did not necessarily make Hitler a racist. Apparently jonah missed all the stuff about "race" that Hitler wrote.

Jonah's writing is part of a genre of Nazi apologist/Hitler apologist. This was all set up to be a campaign theme for the GOPer trailer trash when it was assumed Hillary would be the nominee. But then Obama got elected, which put them in the position of arguing that black people are closet fascists, and presumably holding to fascist themes of racial purity, nostalgia for the past, and paranoia about minorities.

"Liberal Fascism" is why the word "retard" needs to stay our slang vocabulary, for people who have actually read it. Most people that cite "Liberal Fascism" have never actually read any of it, and are in a sub-sub-retard category.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 01:04:05

FDR Speech before the 1936 Democratic National Convention
June 27, 1936

A Rendezvous With Destiny
The age of machinery, of railroads; of steam and electricity; the telegraph and the radio; mass production, mass distribution - all of these combined to bring forward a new civilization and with it a new problem for those who sought to remain free.

For out of this modern civilization economic royalists carved new dynasties. New kingdoms were built upon concentration of control over material things. Through new uses of corporations, banks and securities, new machinery of industry and agriculture, of labor and capital - all undreamed of by the Fathers - the whole structure of modern life was impressed into this royal service.

There was no place among this royalty for our many thousands of small-businessmen and merchants who sought to make a worthy use of the American system of initiative and profit. They were no more free than the worker or the farmer. Even honest and progressive-minded men of wealth, aware of their obligation to their generation, could never know just where they fitted into this dynastic scheme of things.

It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control over government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. In its service new mercenaries sought to regiment the people, their labor, and their property. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man.

The hours men and women worked, the wages they received, the conditions of their labor - these had passed beyond the control of the people, and were imposed by this new industrial dictatorship. The savings of the average family, the capital of the small-businessmen, the investments set aside for old age - other people's money - these were tools which the new economic royalty used to dig itself in.

Those who tilled the soil no longer reaped the rewards which were their right. The small measure of their gains was decreed by men in distant cities.

Throughout the nation, opportunity was limited by monopoly. Individual initiative was crushed in the cogs of a great machine. The field open for free business was more and more restricted. Private enterprise, indeed, became too private. It became privileged enterprise, not free enterprise.

An old English judge once said: "Necessitous men are not free men." Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government. The collapse of 1929 showed up the despotism for what it was. The election of 1932 was the people's mandate to end it. Under that mandate it is being ended.

The royalists of the economic order have conceded that political freedom was the business of the government, but they have maintained that economic slavery was nobody's business. They granted that the government could protect the citizen in his right to vote, but they denied that the government could do anything to protect the citizen in his right to work and his right to live.

Today we stand committed to the proposition that freedom is no half-and-half affair. If the average citizen is guaranteed equal opportunity in the polling place, he must have equal opportunity in the market place.

These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand for. Now, as always, they stand for democracy, not tyranny; for freedom, not subjection; and against a dictatorship by mob rule and the over-privileged alike.

The brave and clear platform adopted by this convention, to which I heartily subscribe, sets forth that government in a modern civilization has certain inescapable obligations to its citizens, among which are protection of the family and the home, the establishment of a democracy of opportunity, and aid to those overtaken by disaster.

But the resolute enemy within our gates is ever ready to beat down our words unless in greater courage we will fight for them.

link

It must be understood that this is a stuggle that has been going on for over a century, and the American people are losing.

We need an FDR now. Obama could be that person, but he is either afraid, or in collusion, or does not believe and seeks only his own continuation.

Also, we need an American people that want to be free. Perhaps that is what Obama recognizes. The American people have sold out. They are willing to accept economic slavery and are not worth saving.

I hope that is not the case.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Shar_Lamagne » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 02:57:56

Wow, President Obama should say, "FDR said," then give that speech verbatim.

It sounds like he is talking about today. The rest of the world believed there was no hope before President Obama won. It had already looked like America had been lost to the Fascists and we were worried that we would face another Nazi Germany, but one armed with nuclear weapons and the most powerful military on the planet.

I hope fortunes do not reverse. I hope that the American people are smart and brave.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby americandream » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 05:54:55

There's no such thing as an honest and progressive businessman. Businesses are subject to pressures to maintain and enhance annual profits. In days gone by, this was by way of Victorian working conditions or outright slavery. In contemporary times, these conditions have been exported to low wage zones and Western workers are increasingly flung onto the screapheap of casualised employment.

Businesses have no other choice but to attack costs as competition increases and markets expand. Eventually all the world is made in the image of lowly paid, indebted consumer/workers as entrepreneurs either fall by the wayside or survive to preside over monolithic corporations.

These are inevitables. Clear the slate as in a major catastrophe, re-introduce the private and you will be back here, where we are, in a few hundred years.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 09:22:42

Shar_Lamagne wrote:Wow, President Obama should say, "FDR said," then give that speech verbatim.

It sounds like he is talking about today. The rest of the world believed there was no hope before President Obama won. It had already looked like America had been lost to the Fascists and we were worried that we would face another Nazi Germany, but one armed with nuclear weapons and the most powerful military on the planet.

I hope fortunes do not reverse. I hope that the American people are smart and brave.




Oh, The Messiah hath shown us thee lighteth. Oh , Messiah!
You can have a Fascism without any hint of Nazism, and vice versa, dont worry. One thing does not invoke the other.

by the way, I am still waiting you to confirm my recent finding about you (u know, about your sudden love for muslims and your family kicking you out of inheritance).
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 10:58:41

Pretorian wrote:
Shar_Lamagne wrote:Wow, President Obama should say, "FDR said," then give that speech verbatim.

It sounds like he is talking about today. The rest of the world believed there was no hope before President Obama won. It had already looked like America had been lost to the Fascists and we were worried that we would face another Nazi Germany, but one armed with nuclear weapons and the most powerful military on the planet.

I hope fortunes do not reverse. I hope that the American people are smart and brave.

Oh, The Messiah hath shown us thee lighteth. Oh , Messiah!
You can have a Fascism without any hint of Nazism, and vice versa, dont worry. One thing does not invoke the other.

No, Nazism is a form of fascism, like rain is a form of water.

People that try to promote some extremely academic narrow definition are, for lack of a better word, Nazis, or Nazi apologists ("Hitler didn't really want war"), or have swastika flags tacked up in their attic. Old photos of people that promote these ideas turn up of them at white supremacist rallies talking from a podium with swastika flags. The wealthy nutty right wing has always had a cottage industry of Nazi apologists.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 11:14:46

Definition of FASCISM
1
often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2
: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

What race or nationality do the progressives exalt above the individual and what dictatorial leader is the head of the progressives?

Where is evidence of "forcible suppression of opposition"?

Seems like the big Beck rally is evidence there is little or no "forcible suppression" of opposing views.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 11:49:10

Ludi wrote:... FASCISM...
Where is evidence of "forcible suppression of opposition"? Seems like the big Beck rally is evidence there is little or no "forcible suppression" of opposing views.


Ludi is exactly right. In spite of the claims of some looney leftists, the US is not a fascist country.

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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 11:54:49

Link to Umberto Eco's 14 point description of Fascism. There are shorter versions that don't cover very much of it.

http://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf

Back in 1995 Eco seemed to anticipate "Liberal Fascism," and he provides a devastating rebuttal. Communism and Fascism are the opposite sides of the Reformation. Communism is a reductionist, materialist, pseudoscientific view of the world that tries to view society as if it were just another physical phenomenon like magnetism or electricity, and they can control society like we control electricity by understanding the natural laws. They saw man, plants, and animals as plastic that could be molded to any shape. Needless to say this hasn't worked.

The Nazis on the other hand reject "materialism" by which they mean reductionist science. As Hitler said many many times, Nazism is a "spiritual movement," of blood, earth, and will. Nazis see man as unchangeable and everything governed by God and destiny.

Philosophically, you can't get any further apart. And when someone tries to say they are similar, that person is usually way over to the right on the Nazi fringe trying to blur the definition of what a Nazi is so they can't be called a Nazi. It's like a man saying "Lot's of guys wear ladies underwear. Just because I'm wearing panties and a garter belt does not make me a transvestite."
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 11:57:06

Plantagenet wrote:Ludi is exactly right. In spite of the claims of some looney leftists, the US is not a fascist country.



I have to say, it bothers me when people say the US is fascist. Because such a belief inhibits people from expressing their differing points of view. I had friends who during the Bush years were afraid to express their opinions in public for fear of being suppressed (they never said just how this would occur). Well, if you're too afraid to speak (because of some vague idea of reprisal), you've already suppressed yourself!
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 11:59:08

Plantagenet wrote:
Ludi wrote:... FASCISM...
Where is evidence of "forcible suppression of opposition"? Seems like the big Beck rally is evidence there is little or no "forcible suppression" of opposing views.

Ludi is exactly right. In spite of the claims of some looney leftists, the US is not a fascist country.
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Agreed, but when you get an all white crowd of 90,000 people celebrating the fascist themes of nostalgia, worship of the military, honor, alternate versions of history, spiritual renewal, nationalized religion, conspiracy, and the threat of immigration, it is a cause for concern.
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Re: History of American Progressivism through Literature

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 12:02:48

PrestonSturges wrote:it is a cause for concern.



I certainly hope people are expressing their concerns freely and in detail.

Personally I am happy to see plenty of Tea Party type rallies, especially those with signs and slogans. I wish there had been personal signs allowed at the Beck rally.
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