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Are we living in a designer universe?

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Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 21:57:40

Are we living in a designer universe?

The argument over whether the universe has a creator, and who that might be, is among the oldest in human history. But amid the raging arguments between believers and sceptics, one possibility has been almost ignored – the idea that the universe around us was created by people very much like ourselves, using devices not too dissimilar to those available to scientists today.

As with much else in modern physics, the idea involves particle acceleration, the kind of thing that goes on in the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland. Before the LHC began operating, a few alarmists worried that it might create a black hole which would destroy the world. That was never on the cards: although it is just possible that the device could generate an artificial black hole, it would be too small to swallow an atom, let alone the Earth.

However, to create a new universe would require a machine only slightly more powerful than the LHC – and there is every chance that our own universe may have been manufactured in this way.

This is possible for two reasons. First, black holes may – as science fiction aficionados will be well aware – act as gateways to other regions of space and time. Second, because of the curious fact that gravity has negative energy, it takes no energy to make a universe. Despite the colossal amount of energy contained in every atom of matter, it is precisely balanced by the negativity of gravity.


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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby efarmer » Tue 31 Aug 2010, 22:34:47

Well I am negative, and I'm a walking advertisement for gravity, and if it is like making a mess or an ass out of yourself, I imagine I could make a universe. Would it be OK if I make a couple of goofy ones to get my chops worked out and then shoot for a keeper?

You will have to believe in the piddler or perhaps the cosmic fiddle farter in my universe cause I sure as hell ain't no creator.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 22:24:26

Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God

God did not create the universe, the man who is arguably Britain's most famous living scientist says in a forthcoming book.

In the new work, The Grand Design, Professor Stephen Hawking argues that the Big Bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity.

In his 1988 book, A Brief History of Time, Hawking had seemed to accept the role of God in the creation of the universe. But in the new text, co-written with American physicist Leonard Mlodinow, he said new theories showed a creator is "not necessary".

The Grand Design, an extract of which appears in the Times today, sets out to contest Sir Isaac Newton's belief that the universe must have been designed by God as it could not have created out of chaos.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.


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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby hillsidedigger » Wed 01 Sep 2010, 22:27:23

I think what we call the apparent universe is just some little sideshow built by some devious entity in rebellion to the creator of all with 'all' being far beyond what humans can perceive.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 20:49:31

Stephen Hawking has not yet disproved God's role in creation

According to your report, Stephen Hawking claims that God is redundant in explaining the origins of the universe, stating that "the big bang, rather than occurring following the intervention of a divine being, was inevitable due to the law of gravity" (Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God, 2 September). The article publishes an extract from Hawking's new book: "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist ... It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe alight." It seems Hawking believes that a law of nature (ie the law of gravity), rather than an immaterial deity, explains the existence of the natural order.

But what is a law of nature? Some philosophers hold that the laws of nature are grounded in the causal capacities of physical objects: the capacity of water to boil at 100C, and the capacity of salt to dissolve in water (to take two very simple examples). Other philosophers claim that laws of nature are simply brute regularities in the natural world, which have no ultimate explanation. On either conception, it is difficult to see how laws could explain the natural order, as they seem to depend for their own existence upon that natural order.

Hawking has never told us what he thinks a law of nature is, and until he does so it is impossible to assess his claim that laws of nature can explain the existence of the natural order in a way that renders traditional arguments for the existence of God unsound.


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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Ludi » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 21:30:56

Graeme wrote:Stephen Hawking has not yet disproved God's role in creation



Of course he hasn't! Science/scientists can not prove or disprove the existence of something outside of nature (supernatural) because science only deals with the natural world. :x
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby jbrovont » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 21:49:20

You can't prove that god doesn't exist. You could prove that creating the universe doesn't require or imply divine intervention, but those are two completely different assertions.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 21:56:57

The argument over whether the universe has a creator, and who that might be, is among the oldest in human history.


I admit it. It was me, but it was an accident and I'm very, very sorry.

Seems it's a whole lot easier to do, than to undo.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 21:58:44

Feel free to believe what you want.

I find it interesting that in the world of the educated people, faith is called on less and less -- and in the places where science doesn't have reasonable control.

Examples:

1). Do you trust your priest (or prayer) or an engineer to inspect a new building?

2). Do we use science or faith as the basis to design virtually all complex consumer products?

The main domain where the priests and prayer still make a strong showing is critical health issues. I say this is because our medical technology is still so damn poor it is basically midevil in knowledge/quality/results.

3). And even then -- most US courts now frown strongly on faith healing for children, even if cancer doctors (in my experience) are little better if the cancer is either aggressive or advanced.

So we have a "God of the gaps", illustrated perfectly in the remaining arguments among educated people about evolution.

Believe what you want. At least science has shown some evidence of working. Aside from teaching us to be decent human beings, religion/faith has shown NO evidence of doing squat except (ironically) serving as something to fight about.
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Kristen » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 22:53:44

The only question that remains is that of tyhe designers origin. Everything has a beginning and end, what created the begining of the designer?
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Graeme » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 23:03:38

I misled readers a little by introducing God. Can re-quote the original article to get us back on track?

The big question is whether that has already happened – is our universe a designer universe? By this, I do not mean a God figure, an "intelligent designer" monitoring and shaping all aspects of life. Evolution by natural selection, and all the other processes that produced our planet and the life on it, are sufficient to explain how we got to be the way we are, given the laws of physics that operate in our universe.

However, there is still scope for an intelligent designer of universes as a whole. Modern physics suggests that our universe is one of many, part of a "multiverse" where different regions of space and time may have different properties (the strength of gravity may be stronger in some and weaker in others). If our universe was made by a technologically advanced civilisation in another part of the multiverse, the designer may have been responsible for the Big Bang, but nothing more.


For more info, please read entire article.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby americandream » Wed 29 Sep 2010, 23:23:29

Wonder who designed the designer?

Graeme wrote:I misled readers a little by introducing God. Can re-quote the original article to get us back on track?

The big question is whether that has already happened – is our universe a designer universe? By this, I do not mean a God figure, an "intelligent designer" monitoring and shaping all aspects of life. Evolution by natural selection, and all the other processes that produced our planet and the life on it, are sufficient to explain how we got to be the way we are, given the laws of physics that operate in our universe.

However, there is still scope for an intelligent designer of universes as a whole. Modern physics suggests that our universe is one of many, part of a "multiverse" where different regions of space and time may have different properties (the strength of gravity may be stronger in some and weaker in others). If our universe was made by a technologically advanced civilisation in another part of the multiverse, the designer may have been responsible for the Big Bang, but nothing more.


For more info, please read entire article.
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Re: Are we living in a designer universe?

Unread postby Graeme » Thu 30 Sep 2010, 00:43:39

Natural evolution.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
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