[Cid_Yama]

AFL-CIO Backs October 2 March in Washington, DC for Jobs, Justice and Peace

We learned this morning that the National Executive Council of the AFL-CIO has voted to support and mobilize its members for the October 2, 2010, march on Washington to demand "jobs, economic security, comprehensive immigration reform, a safe and renewable energy policy and a reversal of national priorities from making wars to meeting human needs." This march was initiated by SEIU Local 1199 and the NAACP.

NAACP President Ben Jealous announced the October 2 march at the NAACP convention in Kansas City in early July, explaining that "marchers will demand the change they voted for when Barack Obama was elected," and emphasizing the urgent need to "create jobs and stop moving money out of education and into wars and prisons." (Kansas City Star, July 12, 2010)

Indeed, while there are many issues of concern among working people, having a job ranks by far at the very top of the list, since so many other basic needs are directly tied to employment. The current Great Recession -- some are calling it a depression -- has spawned a surge in joblessness, with little recovery in sight. Temporary downward dips in the unemployment rate are resulting from workers becoming discouraged; they stop looking for work because they do not think they can find any, so they are no longer counted as unemployed.

Not enough jobs are being created in the private sector to keep up with the number of new workers who are entering the labor market. According to an AFL-CIO blog (June 7, 2010), 38 percent of Americans report that either they or someone close to them has lost a job. There are officially almost 15 million Americans now out of work, mostly due to the current economic crisis. But if those who are involuntarily working part-time and if discouraged workers are taken into account, the number is much higher.

Claiming that the federal deficit is the greatest threat to the economy, politicians of both major parties are displaying a stark lack of interest in aggressively attacking the problem of joblessness. Recently, Congress callously refused to extend unemployment benefits, thereby cutting a crucial lifeline for over one million unemployed workers. Many believe that this inflated focus on the deficit is simply an excuse by politicians to terminate popular government programs, where the politicians claim the government simply cannot afford to maintain them. Motivated by special interests instead of what is good for the country as a whole, these politicians propose privatizing the programs or eliminating them altogether.

SEIU Local 1199 President George Gresham has predicted that this demonstration will be a "massive -- and we believe historic -- march." It might, in fact, mark a turning point for organized labor as it launches this fight-back.

link

[gollum]

I can't understand a union pushing "comprehensive immigration reform" which only hurts their members. For the record I'm a union worker and very pro union.

[Plantagenet]

.... explain how immigration reform hurts union members? Thanks.

No problemo.

Wages paid to workers in the US are responsive to the law of supply and demand, just like everything else. The US currently has 12-20 million illegal aliens competing with native born citizens for jobs in construction, restaurants, sales, etc. The increased supply of labor has resulted in lower wages for native born working class people.

In fact, academic research shows that the reason for much of the declining wages of Americans seen over the last 20 years can be traced to the effect of competition with illegal aliens for jobs.

Here is an example from Arizona: job competition with illegal aliens result in lower wages for Americans

[Cid_Yama]

The number of illegal immigrants living in the U.S. has dropped for the first time in two decades — decreasing by 8 percent since 2007, a new study finds. The reasons range from the sour economy to Mexican violence and increased U.S. enforcement that has made it harder to sneak across the border.

Much of the decline comes from a sharp drop-off in illegal immigrants from the Caribbean, Central America and South America attempting to cross the southern border of the U.S., according to the Pew Hispanic Center, which based its report on an analysis of 2009 census data.

The findings come amid bitter debate over Arizona's strict new immigration law, which was passed earlier this year but is on hold for now as it is challenged in federal court. The Obama administration contends the state law usurps federal authority and promotes racial profiling, while Arizona leaders say states are justified to step in if federal enforcement falls substantially short.

The study released Wednesday estimates that 11.1 million illegal immigrants lived in the U.S. in 2009. That represents a decrease of roughly 1 million, or 8 percent, from a peak of 12 million in 2007.

link

That represents .35% of the population of the US. Not enough by a long shot to affect wages, except regionally where the percentage is higher, and only among unskilled laborers.

In other words, that argument is nonsense.

[careinke]

That represents .35% of the population of the US. Not enough by a long shot to affect wages, except regionally where the percentage is higher, and only among unskilled laborers.

Your math is off. It represents 3.5 percent of the population not .35 percent. Also, if you just count the US workforce (138 million) it works out to 7.9 percent. I would guess this could have an impact on wages.

[Cid_Yama]

US population as of 2009 is 310,152,000. The 11 million illegal imigrants include families so are not entirely workforce any more than the entire population of the US.

3.5% is still not enough to significantly affect wages. Which would only slightly affect the unskilled labor pool, and the skilled labor pool, not at all.

The argument is still nonsense.

[RikkiTikkiTavi]

1,000,000 / 310,152,000 = ~.323%

The decrease was 1 million, not 11.1 million (the current total). Cid's math was accurate (if the figures given above for illegal alien decrease and current population were accurate).

Edit: Oh wait, now I'm not sure which figure Cid was referencing. Oh well.

[Outcast_Searcher]

US population as of 2009 is 310,152,000. The 11 million illegal imigrants include families so are not entirely workforce any more than the entire population of the US.

3.5% is still not enough to significantly affect wages. Which would only slightly affect the unskilled labor pool, and the skilled labor pool, not at all.

The argument is still nonsense.

I'm confused. I thought that businesses, especially agribusiness, wanted low skill illegals so they could employ them off the books. This lets them avoid things like the minimum wage, reguired taxes, insurance, etc. Surely that magnifies the downward pressure on wages for low skilled American citizens.

I suspect this is a far bigger issue than whether the proper percentage of low skilled illegal workers is (say) 2% or 4% of the labor force. I also suspect this is the REAL reason our wonderful politicians including Mr. Obama, do NOTHING about meaningful immigration reform to get everyone on the books -- besides make speeches with empty promises.

Besides, if the un/low skilled portion of the American workforce is, say, 25% of the entire workforce (even sales clerks read and use cash registers), then these illegals are perhaps 8% to 16% of the un/low skilled workers. If we don't try to (roughly) use valid comparisons here, we won't get meaningful percentages to consider the likely impact to wages.

I agree that for high skilled workers, the competition is a nonissue.

(Don't get me wrong. I don't care where folks come from or what they look like - but I want everyone who lives here to compete under the same rules and laws, pay taxes under the same laws, receive benefits under the same rules, etc. I also don't want greedy corporations to use illegals as a way to illegally get a below-market labor source for them to exploit. That's why I want to see a comprehensive immigration policy -- not to punish people or throw them out).

[Ludi]

.... explain how immigration reform hurts union members? Thanks.

No problemo.

Wages paid to workers in the US are responsive to the law of supply and demand, just like everything else. The US currently has 12-20 million illegal aliens competing with native born citizens for jobs in construction, restaurants, sales, etc. The increased supply of labor has resulted in lower wages for native born working class people.

Ok, that's fine, but how does immigration reform hurt union members? Immigration reform at least implies fewer illegal immigrants pushing wages lower.

[eastbay]

It's all so strange.

The USA imports two million workers annually. The economy is creating zero net new jobs. All of these imported workers must eat. To do so many get jobs thereby displacing others already here who would otherwise be working. Legalized or illegally present it's truly fascinating that any worker would approve of such a perverse arrangement. It's also interesting to see so many otherwise intelligent American workers brainwashed into thinking it's in their interest to allow this to continue.

[Cid_Yama]

This post is about the October 2nd March and some Moron changed the title and misspelled Illegal. Then turned off the edit to prevent me from correcting it.

Edit: Sorry, see that this was a split off from the other thread. Could someone please correct the spelling.

[Tanada]

Title spelling error corrected as requested, please us the PM function to request moderator actions.

[Ayoob]

Why the hell would anyone want MORE PEOPLE in their country in a situation of DECLINING RESOURCES?????

I cannot get it through my head. It makes NO SENSE.

We can immediately create a hundred thousand new jobs by hiring a national security force who will go door to door and drag the illegals out into the street, load them on busses, and send them all home. Back where they belong.

The US is not the dumping ground for every illiterate beggar in the world! That's a stupid idea, and it needs to be stomped to death in the street!

[Ludi]

We can immediately create a hundred thousand new jobs by hiring a national security force who will go door to door and drag the illegals out into the street, load them on busses, and send them all home. Back where they belong.

Never mind violating all kinds of Constitutional rights. Who needs those anyway?

[Ludi]

The US is not the dumping ground for every illiterate beggar in the world!

What about the highly educated folk who get work visas to work in the US and then eventually become citizens?

Or are they ok because they are not illiterate beggars and they take white-collar jobs from US citizens?

[Plantagenet]

The US is not the dumping ground for every illiterate beggar in the world!

What about the highly educated folk who get work visas to work in the US and then eventually become citizens?

Or are they ok because they are not illiterate beggars and they take white-collar jobs from US citizens?

If we've got a choice (and we do) its certainly more sensible to allow highly educated productive people to apply and be evaluated then to legally immigrate then it is to allow millions of illiterate uneducated people to illegally enter the country.

Canada, for instance, has an immigration policy that accepts immigrants who are well educated and have enough capital to start businesses that hire Canadians and attracts lots of Asians to British Columbia (and Canada has come through the capital collapse in a heck of a lot better shape then the US.)

[Plantagenet]

There was a story today in the LA Times saying that union membership in California --- that bastion of liberalism known for welcoming illegal immigration----is decreasing more rapidly then anywhere in the USA.

This is a classic example of how Illegal immigrants are bad for unions and bad for wages----you flood an area with millions of workers willing to work off the books for low wages and union workers are going to get undercut and wages are going to go down......

[Pops]

A neighboring dairy pays a milker $30 per milking, twice a day, 6 days a week, and usually in the summer an additional 2-4 hours a day at somewhere around $10/hr. for misc. chores. In addition to the paycheck the milker gets a nice little 2 bedroom house, electricity and propane supplied and a freezer full of beef.

They really didn't want to hire an inexperienced "Mexican" (he's actually a Texan) but no "white" people answered the want ad they ran a couple of years ago. People my age would have jumped at that job when we were in our 20's - I have 2 brothers-in-law that milked and got minimum wage and a trailer 30 years ago.

That's just one instance but how many 30 year olds do you know who would pick lettuce - for any amount of money?

It's pretty silly to say mexicans are taking jobs away from the good ol boys down at the union hall. Those boys voted themselves right out of the market sometime back in the '70s and the jobs have been crossing the border in the other direction ever since.

[Ludi]

the jobs have been crossing the border in the other direction ever since.

Apparently crossing the border for jobs has slowed down a lot since there aren't so many jobs.....for anyone....

[Ayoob]

The US is not the dumping ground for every illiterate beggar in the world!

What about the highly educated folk who get work visas to work in the US and then eventually become citizens?

Or are they ok because they are not illiterate beggars and they take white-collar jobs from US citizens?

If we've got a choice (and we do) its certainly more sensible to allow highly educated productive people to apply and be evaluated then to legally immigrate then it is to allow millions of illiterate uneducated people to illegally enter the country.

Canada, for instance, has an immigration policy that accepts immigrants who are well educated and have enough capital to start businesses that hire Canadians and attracts lots of Asians to British Columbia (and Canada has come through the capital collapse in a heck of a lot better shape then the US.)

It's even better to not allow any new people in at all. A further step in the right direction would be to establish a prison colony somewhere else, and empty our prisons and mental hospitals out on the prison colony.

We're overpopulated as it is.