[mattduke]

Efforts to tame America's ballooning budget deficit could soon confront a daunting reality: Nearly half of all Americans live in a household in which someone receives government benefits, more than at any time in history.

At the same time, the fraction of American households not paying federal income taxes has also grown—to an estimated 45% in 2010, from 39% five years ago, according to the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan research organization.

When did they start calling it "benefits" and "entitlements"? God I hate doublespeak.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 8.html?mod

[Kristen]

"I don't like taking government money," says Mr. Hester, but "what else is there?"

End of Article

Mr. Hester is right, what else could he do? As jobs were shipped overseas and technology replaced human labor, there became more people then tasks needed to be done. In such a conundrum the government is choosing to not choke a tenth of it's population to death. Why is it such a problem?

[MarkJ]

Many locals still call many of the following benefits welfare, or handouts... 99 weeks of unemployment, zero/negative tax brackets, $X,000 tax refunds/credits, subsidized public/private housing, food stamps, WIC, foodbank supplements, free school lunches, HEAP, Emergency HEAP, winterization/weatherization, furnace/boiler/water heater repair, maintenance and replacement, home improvements, Medicaid, Child Health Plus, daycare, transportation assistance, free cellular phones/minutes, STAR property tax credits, local/private assistance etc.

It's pretty common for recipients of numerous handouts to think of these benefits as entitlements. They don't consider themselves on welfare since they don't receive benefits like TANF cash assistance.

TANF applicants have been dropping in some of our lower income, higher unemployment regions due to time limits on benefits and tough work, work search and job training requirements.

[pup55]

Hey, we were just talking about this stuff the other day. You don't suppose the WSJ is browsing PO.com for story ideas again..... It was happening regularly a couple of years back....

Anyway, this situation is completely unsustainable. There aren't enough taxpayers coming in at the bottom of the system to make it work.

It is not 100 percent their fault. The real estate developer: He built his career based on the past 20 years of easy mortgage money and built a lot of buildings that did not otherwise need to be built, a large portion of which are probably now sitting empty. The 54-year old microbiologist? Laid off from the department of health, should have been a nice stable government job, in the eyes of the previous generation it would have been nearly an ideal setup.

As an exercise, put yourself in these guys shoes, I would like to see some suggestions from the forum about what exactly these guys ought to do at this point....

Start a business? Doing what? There are only so many subway franchises in town.
Get a job: I did check the Elkhart want ads this morning, and there are 85 jobs within 50 miles of this community.....Surprisingly there are a few openings for welders, mechanics, machinists.... neither of these guys are trained for that....and neither are likely to be hired vs. a good looking 25 year old that goes in right behind them in the event they go to the local community college and do the training.....
Move: I think North Dakota is hiring...
Downsize and become self-sustainable: Do-able, This is Amish country I think....

Suggestions?

[Pops]

Maybe someone can tell me where that 40% who pay no tax number comes from? I earned a whopping $13k net last years and paid (I think) about $2,100 in taxes - granted, that was self-employed SoSec/Medic but it all went out of my pocket into the general fund right?


Pup I think a 54 yo would almost be forced to dig a whole and crawl in nowadays if they are out of work for an extended period or their jobs now require a long commute - like to India. I feel really bad for the couple who thought they'd get ahead and enjoy their youth, delay having kids till their 30's - then fill up the retirement fund in their 50's but instead find themselves now with unmarketable talents in a crappy economy that looks to stay that way.

If you are 54 and have decided your paid assistance is no longer required and have some equity at all you almost have to try to buy a house - outright - however you can - put it on a credit card if necessary. A few weeks ago I was sure we were in for a double dip, today I'm thinking we're just going to slide sideways for a couple years but the big change is that lots of jobs are gone forever:

On one point there's broad agreement: Of 8 million-plus jobs lost to the recession - in fields like manufacturing, real estate and financial services - many, perhaps most, aren't coming back.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/06/business/main6838579.shtml


Trying to get by on $1k/month paying rent would be the pits for me - owning anything that keeps the rain off is a necessity if you are overqualified/underutilized and in retrenchment mode.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Maybe someone can tell me where that 40% who pay no tax number comes from? I earned a whopping $13k net last years and paid (I think) about $2,100 in taxes - granted, that was self-employed SoSec/Medic but it all went out of my pocket into the general fund right?

Pops, such figures refer to the Federal INCOME tax. Almost everyone who works at all must pay SS/Medicare taxes.

However, with federal taxes, there are so many low income credits and programs, that a large percentage of those 40% paying no federal tax end up collecting (NET) tax payments from Uncle Sam.

And sadly, IMO, in this country since the "war on poverty" began in earnest, the work ethic has degraded so badly that such a huge percentage of folks think benefits are OWED them, or that they may as well get all they can since the game is rigged against the responsible folks -- that we now have the totally unsustainable MESS we have, with no political will to address it.

[Outcast_Searcher]

"I don't like taking government money," says Mr. Hester, but "what else is there?"

End of Article

Mr. Hester is right, what else could he do? As jobs were shipped overseas and technology replaced human labor, there became more people then tasks needed to be done. In such a conundrum the government is choosing to not choke a tenth of it's population to death. Why is it such a problem?

It's this kind of self-righteous, helpless, etc. thinking that, as one of the responsible folk who did more than his share in hard work, earning, and paying taxes, that just makes my blood boil.

"What else is there?" indeed! Here are a few examples.

Context: The paper says he is a 54 year old microbiologist. A well educated person and presumably BIG earner that had a 30ish year career to build savings. Not disabled or extremely ill.

So, he could and SHOULD have:

1). Lived responsibly, well below his means.

2). Saved and invested the difference in a diversified portfolio.

3). Be living on his savings until they run out -- NOT expect the government dole to automatically take care of him, at the cost to the taxpayers and citizens who actually have serious problems and need government help.

4). Taken a job (or two) that paid less, but let him pay his bills.

5). Substantially reduced his living standards, and therefore cost of living.

These are just off the top of my head. Having a huge proportion of society that is TOTALLY irresponsible and acts like they DESERVE the government safety net to bail them out if they have a short term setback is just ridiculous. It is symptomatic of why we're in the box we're in.

Worse, most people now support this attitude. I'll probably be attacked as being "mean" because I wouldn't want to live off my fellow taxpayers unless REALLY bad stuff happened, I exhausted all my resources (living responsibly) and I TRULY had no choice.

So who is really mean? Those that immorally want to confiscate others' wealth on a whim, or those who respect the property rights fundamental to true democratic freedom?

Again, I'm not completely against a government safety net. But it should be small, and targeted toward people who have had the equivalent of being struck by lightening -- not completely irresponsible whiny idiots who think they are entitled to other people's money.

Edit - I had the wrong bio information for Mr. Hester

[Ludi]

Deficit Cutting Obstacle: Tax cuts for the wealthy, the super wealthy, and the mega-wealthy



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-k ... obama.html

[PrestonSturges]

"I don't like taking government money," says Mr. Hester, but "what else is there?"

End of Article

Mr. Hester is right, what else could he do? As jobs were shipped overseas and technology replaced human labor, there became more people then tasks needed to be done. In such a conundrum the government is choosing to not choke a tenth of it's population to death. Why is it such a problem?

It's this kind of self-righteous, helpless, etc. thinking that, as one of the responsible folk who did more than his share in hard work, earning, and paying taxes, that just makes my blood boil.

"What else is there?" indeed! Here are a few examples.

Context: The paper says he is a 54 year old microbiologist. A well educated person and presumably BIG earner that had a 30ish year career to build savings. Not disabled or extremely ill.

How's the weather in your universe?

He was probably in grad school until the age of 30, did a postdoc for poverty wages, has switched jobs a couple times as research projects ended, scrambled to keep his skills current, and maybe for 10 years of his life earned more than an average salary so he could get a modest home loan, and he hopes to pay for it before he retires.

People have these fantasies about scientists, like these guys that drive 10 year old Corollas are masterminding the AGW conspiracy to take over the world.