[Ludi]

"If you watch cable news and read comments on the internet, you may believe the majority of Americans don’t approve of the recent Health Care Reform legislation. In fact, most people are not happy with it; however, a recent poll for The Associated Press has exposed some major misconceptions by the media and popular public opinion.

The poll conducted through Stanford University with the support from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation demonstrates people who think the bill didn’t go far enough outnumber those who think the government should stay out of health care by a 2 to 1 margin. Only one in 5 people said they thing the government should stay completely away from health care. No matter whether they supported the bill or not, about 40% said they believed the bill did not go far enough to change the health care system."

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.acti ... 4978548007

Apparently more Americans would like more socialism, not less. In spite of what the Tea Party says.

[Plantagenet]

Apparently more Americans would like more socialism, not less. In spite of what the Tea Party says.

Obamacare is socialism?

That isn't what you were saying when it was being voted on, but the idea that Obamacare is socialism does have a certain "truthiness" to it

[efarmer]

I am afraid I will have to go Fair and Balanced once again.

Headline: Obamacare addicts US to Socialism and threatens our bargain corporate Health Care System.

You Decide: Will our Doctors and Nurses end up performing mandatory lobotomies on conservative patriots?

Opinion: Explaining the ills of Socialism causes us to have unsafe discourse and contact with The Others and is a direct risk to our Purity.


Pssst! Pssst! Plant, you have the Red guy holding the gun on the wealthy Blue guy. Fix this before I have to make my next report. For Penance, you need to watch Sean and Glenn before you post again.

[dinopello]

Asking if people want more healthcare reform is pointless and doesn't indicate their attitude about the basic issue. As I see it, the philisophical question that first must be answered would be something like

Choice 1:
As a condition of citizenship, individuals of the US should be required to financial support a public system that seeks to enable some level of affordable healthcare to all fellow citizens.

Note: The amount that would be required from each citizen, the level of healthcare and what defines "affordable" are detail to be worked out as part of a public legislative process.

Choice 2:
No individual should be required to contribute anything to any type of public healthcare system.

[Ludi]

Notice the guy holding the sign is an apparently strapping healthy young white male.

I wonder how he would feel if he got hit by a car, or found out he has diabetes or cancer? I wonder how he will feel when he gets old?

[efarmer]

Choice 3:

Federal legislation on treatment of uninsured persons should be suspended as unfunded mandates.

Choice 4:

Bodies of persons unwilling or unable to afford health care should not be cremated nor buried at public expense, unless they pose a health risk or impede traffic or enjoyment of public spaces.

Choice 5:

Companies that bury or cremate financially unsound persons should be selected by the lowest bidder and not be allowed to be poltical patronage awards.

[dinopello]

Notice the guy holding the sign is an apparently strapping healthy young white male.

I wonder how he would feel if he got hit by a car, or found out he has diabetes or cancer? I wonder how he will feel when he gets old?

There are some who believe it would be up to the person's family to care for them (voluntarily of course). Lacking a family with means, some believe that it is up to nature to run it's course. Whether they continue to believe that should misfortune or when inevitable old age befalls them is unknown. I also know a fair number of 'compassionate conservatives". These believe that everyone of means should voluntarily contribute to the social support systems of their choice and the ones I know put their money where their mouth is.

Personally, I would pick Choice 1 as the society I want to live in. In our system of public debate, even if the vast majority would pick Choice 1, those that would pick Choice 2 get to participate in setting the details required to implement Choice 1. I think this causes problems sometimes (though I'm not sure these is a better alternative). It's like people who are philisophically opposed to any sort of publicly funded transportation getting a say in what the bus routes and schedules are (and this happens a lot).

[dinopello]

Choice 4:
Bodies of persons unwilling or unable to afford health care should not be cremated nor buried at public expense, unless they pose a health risk or impede traffic or enjoyment of public spaces.

Now that's some morbid humor! The impede traffic part is too close to reality ! I think any society that would choose this choice wouldn't have "public spaces" though.

[Ludi]

Now that's some morbid humor! The impede traffic part is too close to reality ! I think any society that would choose this choice wouldn't have "public spaces" though.

It might not even be a "society." It might just be a number of individuals who happen to live near each other. That seems to be the libertarian ideal. Paddle your own canoe and try not to bump into anyone else's canoe. Probably works better if there aren't many canoes, for instance out in the wilderness somewhere, rather than in cities and towns.

[gollum]

I've often asked republicans which part of the health care bill are they going to repeal first, the part that forbids denial of preexisting conditions, or the part that stops insurance companies from dropping you when you get sick, maybe the part that lets you keep your kids on while they are in college?

[Plantagenet]

If Americans want more health care reform, why are democrats afraid to campaign on the basis of their votes to pass Obamacare, why is Obama so unpopular, and why are so many Congressional candidates opposed to Obamacare ahead in their districts?

It looks like the health care reform that most Americans want is the repeal of Obamacare.

[Plantagenet]

I've often asked republicans which part of the health care bill are they going to repeal first..

Rule #1 in a recession is DONT RAISE TAXES. The parts of Obamacare that impose new costs, taxes and regulations on individuals and small and larges businesses and inhibit new job creation should be repealed first.

[gollum]

I've often asked republicans which part of the health care bill are they going to repeal first..

Rule #1 in a recession is DONT RAISE TAXES. The parts of Obamacare that impose new costs, taxes and regulations on individuals and small and larges businesses and inhibit new job creation should be repealed first.

Quite honestly, as far as the economy is concerned I'd think that most posters here would realise economic growth is over due to peak oil. At this point we need to be in a triage mode, and providing at least basic health care to every citizen would seem to me to be part of that. Having said that I don't really think a bloated public/private cooperative does that. I think the wiser choice would have been to set up small government funded clinics in every town in the country that provide low cost service for the 95% of medical issues that are simple fixes, and perhaps publicly funded hospitals. We could have paid for this through massive cuts to the military industrial complex.