[Tanada]

Are you saying that I agree you? That I believe US corn ethanol doesn't deprive folks of food? That is the crazy thing.

Let me be very clear: the ethanol under discussion is hydrolyzed and fermented corn starch burned up in auto fuel . . . not eaten. So yes, folks are deprived of food at a reasonable cost. Price of remaining food must go up as per supply/demand equation.

Furthermore, the protein waste (the distillers grain) from the process is fed to hogs rather than land-filled. It is not a value-added product, it is a wet pile of smelly rotting waste. Your suggestion that the distillers grain is the cause of hunger is wrong.

Clearly you have a reading comprehension problem and just love to use over the top descriptions of things to try and demonstrate you emotional attachment rather than science or other knowledge.

The world has an abundance of food, much of it exported by the USA. The percentage of corn grain that is ground and fermented to strip out the starch is insignificant because that grain was destined for feed for livestock to start with. That wet pile you call waste is value added high protein feed, and it is not used just for swine. It is used for pet food, cattle feed, hog slops, and so on. Give them a couple years and it will probably become a food additive for processed microwavable meals your neighbors will be chowing on before you know it. It isn't left to lay around and rot and it is infrequently landfilled because it is a value added high protein food and just paying to bury it is a method of losing money.

So if using cheap corn to make ethanol drives the price up with the supply demand equation how is it you argue ETP trumps the supply demand equation when it comes to the price of oil and oil products after peak oil? Either economics exist or they don't, you can not have it for one consumable product but not for another.

Your argument that the starch from the grain being converted to alcohol causes world hunger but the distillers grain being used to feed pets and livestock is preventing world hunger has some logic so twisted I can not possibly follow it. Your body and my body and all those third world bodies can get caloric energy from both the starch and the distillers grain portions of the grain. If the distillers grain is fed to cattle they can also get food energy from the cellulose portion of the product because their digestive system is good at breeding the bacteria that break down cellulose.

[KaiserJeep]

There are many different recipes for making either ethanol or methanol, and we don't need any discussion of all the different varieties. I'll just mention that using switchgrass (a weed) or manure are two ways to make alcohols without diverting grain or other foodstuffs.

The "new" fuel for the current years is E85, not E15. All over the MidWest, this is commonly available, and unlike E15, it usefully extends our petroleum gasoline supply. In fact, virtually every vehicle with a computer-controlled engine (ECU) and the right materials in the fuel system is compatible with E85, whether or not it says so on the fuel filler cap.

As luck would have it, I own one of the few vehicles with an ECU that is NOT compatible with E85, meaning my 2003 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. To make it E85 compatible, I would need to replace the six 23 lb/hr fuel injectors with 25 lb/hr injectors, drop the fuel tank and replace the "sock filter" on the fuel pickup (a $200 labor cost task), and then install a re-programmed ECU ($1000 plus $200 labor), plus the yellow fuel filler cap ($25). Because I also have an RFID "security system" factory option, the only way this could happen is with Fiat-Chrysler's cooperation - not happening for a 2003 model year Jeep.

I'd never recoup those costs in fuel savings, I'll continue to burn E10 and E15, which seem to work fine. But I'll ensure that the new SUV the wife wants will be "Flex Fuel" compatible.