[Pops]

PeakOil.com has become quite the political and economics forum, but most of the talk nowadays is about them.
You know; the unemployed, foreclosed, bankrupted, pensionless, penniless, angry, aimless zombies.

I can't help but think that some of our formerly active members are bound to be out there wandering from couch to couch, because, again I can only guess, they took all the doom as just another computer game instead of thinking it might actually have some impact on them and maybe they should try making some move to be more resilient income-wise.

Thuja always preached not to go run off to the sticks where you can't find a job but stay in town and keep that job at all costs. I kinda agree unless "keeping the job" really means changing nothing. For several years here people have been saying that fuel costs will rise and (just like every other time) it will cause a recession and people will lose their job/house/whatevers. You can argue that isn't what happened this time but I've not seen a good argument so far.

So have you changed your source of income or is your situation isolated from the rest of the energy and consumer economy to such an extent you think you'll not be affected?

I do graphics and before I moved half way across the country I'd have appointments with clients to go over a project, now the clients I have are either ones comfortable with phone/email contact or that I handle through a couple of reps. Things got a little thin while I made that transition but it's better now, for now. The other thing we did was learn to raise dairy calves which made up half our income the last couple of years.

I know lots of us have changed cars, started a garden, insulated the attic etc, some of us have moved to a location where we can be more independent and less vulnerable to higher energy prices. But what have you done about your income? Or is your job/career immune? Tell us how/why?

[Ludi]

I'm doing the only thing I know how to do for money - make things. So if I can't make an income at that, I'm sunk.

[Plantagenet]

Hi Pops:

I really admire the decisions you've made and the independence you've won for yourself by your move away from the big city.

Alaskans have about the highest levels of fuel use and the biggest carbon footprint of anyone on earth because of the need to heat our homes for eight months a year and travel great distances to get to anywhere. Nonetheless, our economy has been doing pretty well in spite of the weak recovery. Unemployment never went up very much here, although home prices fell a bit and they aren't selling as quickly as they used to. Part of the reason for this is that high oil prices are actually good for most of the Alaskan economy which is dominated by oil production, and Obama's stimulus money also made a big impact here, because government is perhaps the second biggest part of the economy.

When we get pink slips we'll freeze in the dark, but for now its still pretty good here in the coolest state.

[Sixstrings]

Nonetheless, our economy has been doing pretty well in spite of the weak recovery.

And of course, Alaskans also get those socialist oil revenue income redistribution checks. Do you send those checks back because they're "socialist?"

Obama's stimulus money also made a big impact here, because government is perhaps the second biggest part of the economy.

Wow, the person who complains about Obama the most is also the only one I've heard say he's seen real benefit from Obama's stimulus.

Anyway, in my opinion I'd say in a long collapse Alaska is probably one of the best states to live in. You're not overpopulated, you have no immigration problem, and if all else fails there's enough of you who know how to hunt and fish and the scenery is gorgeous. Could you keep warm though if the grid goes offline?

[Pops]

Thanks Plant.

What have you done about your pink slip, SIx?

[Sixstrings]

I can't help but think that some of our formerly active members are bound to be out there wandering from couch to couch, because, again I can only guess, they took all the doom as just another computer game instead of thinking it might actually have some impact on them and maybe they should try making some move to be more resilient income-wise.

I sincerely hope former members have learned all they feel they need to and are just busy with life. I prefer to think on the positive side, that their personal circumstances have changed such that they're so happy they don't have time for doom anymore.

As for myself, I have a rule about keeping my private life private. I'm too long-winded as it is, and if I start going on about myself then I'll never stop and really nobody wants to hear all that.

[Pops]

That's OK Six, I didn't need your SS# I already have your IP address.

So really, you've changed nothing, just hope for the best, and, well, plan for the best?

[Plantagenet]

Alaskans also get those socialist oil revenue income redistribution checks. Do you send those checks back because they're "socialist?"

Socialism? Isn't that when the government takes money from you??

Could you keep warm though if the grid goes offline?

Probably not in any kind of style.

I spend some of each summer chain-sawing downed trees into wood-stove sized bits here at my main house, but I couldn't heat the whole house that way.

How about you, Sixstrings?? Do you have enough dilithium crystals to keep your systems running if the grid went offline?

[Ludi]

As for myself, I have a rule about keeping my private life private.

That's never worked for me. My life's an open book.

[Pretorian]

Alaskans also get those socialist oil revenue income redistribution checks. Do you send those checks back because they're "socialist?"

Socialism? Isn't that when the government takes money from you??

Not at al. With a real Socialism you will not have any other monies than those that the government gives you, at least you are not supposed to. So you support Socialism? Or only when it suits you? I know you are a rich guy Plant, why not send it back? You could get some kudu points for that with your beer-buddies.

[ritter]

My wife got laid off at the end of last school year. She is (was) a high school teacher. No prospects in our area to get a job as a teacher currently and it looks like next year’s California budget will slash even more from education. So does she 1) go back to college, 2) work the Starbucks counter or 3) stay home providing for our daughter, sub when possible and hope things improve so she can get her job back? Currently, we’re going for option 3 as it is the best for her mentally and saves us on expenditures (tuition/after school care). I don’t know how long that will work though—eventually the unemployment checks will quite hitting the mailbox.

If I get my pink slip, our status quo is in rather serious jeopardy. We’ve got enough in savings/retirement to float for a year (or two if very frugal). However, if we come to that point, it’s my opinion that our current situation will never return to what it was last year. So, rather than squander our monetary resources “waiting it out,” we will either sell or rent our house and move to the in-laws’ place. There, I will have a steep learning curve in farming and will utilize the funds we have to set us up as energy independently as possible. They have property, vineyard and walnuts. I’m becoming more attached to the notion of raising dairy goats for cheese, rabbits for meat and sale and chickens for eggs... Sitting in my office, it sounds like a nice change of pace. Now if only we had national health care for my wife and daughter’s health issues. Maintaining insurance for them scares me the most as far as fiscal variables.

[Ludi]

ritter, looks like you're pretty lucky to have a place to go where you could help support your household by growing food. Glad your wife is considering staying at home to provide childcare. But then, I'm pretty darn old-fashioned in some ways I hope she can enjoy it and not miss the career too much. Leaving the work environment can be tough for some people - I sometimes still miss it even though it was too stressful for me.

Best wishes.

[Pops]

Come guys, lets have at least a couple of threads that don't get trashed with the partisan crap, whadda ya say?

[ritter]

ritter, looks like you're pretty lucky to have a place to go where you could help support your household by growing food. Glad your wife is considering staying at home to provide childcare. But then, I'm pretty darn old-fashioned in some ways I hope she can enjoy it and not miss the career too much. Leaving the work environment can be tough for some people - I sometimes still miss it even though it was too stressful for me.

Best wishes.

Yes, we're very lucky in that respect. Close family and land.

The last few months have been a difficult adjustment for her and I've not much enjoyed being the "sole provider" whist watching my book of work withering. Definitely some puckering going on in my subconscious.

We'll land on our feet somehow. It's just a matter of where, when and if we can control the landing.

[Ludi]

I hope things can equal out for you better, and be able to give your wife (and you) a sense that she too is providing for the family.

[dorlomin]

Well I have lived through one economic collapse when I was young. North Britain in the 70s and 80s, the lesson I drew from that is that flexibility is your best defence.

For myself I finished university in my 30s and in about 2005 was just starting out getting a life and career sorted 10 years later than everyone else. Since getting to grips with peak oil I dont have the money for a doomstead or see an easy skills gap to fill. So my planning is based around living as modest a lifestyle as I can, being prepaired to go back to £7 an hour jobs at the dorp of a hat and saving my money.

Not really sure about investing it though, I am an inherently cautious person and dont want to risk my money too much so it just sits in a bank.

About the least glamerous peak oil preperation ever! Oh I do make a strong point of keeping up my physical fitness levels (cycling over 4000 miles a year, literally I cycle further than I drive every year).

[Sixstrings]

So really, you've changed nothing, just hope for the best, and, well, plan for the best?

Let me go back to a portion of your original post:

I can't help but think that some of our formerly active members are bound to be out there wandering from couch to couch, because, again I can only guess, they took all the doom as just another computer game instead of thinking it might actually have some impact on them and maybe they should try making some move to be more resilient income-wise.

If that's true, how do you think they could have "changed things" in time and avoided poverty and destitution? The fact is that most folks in this country live paycheck to paycheck. Right or wrong, that's just how it is Pops. On a working person's income, getting out of debt and re-arranging your life takes YEARS, and we're already in the midst of collapse and don't have years.

Do you think these "couch to couch" folks should have just bought a farm free and clear and set themselves up for self sufficiency? Maybe a good idea, but how is someone who's already paycheck to paycheck supposed to raise the capital for that? It can be done, sure, but for most folks that would take years of planning and sacrifice.

As for myself, I'll just say that my main goal is to pay my mortgage off free and clear. I abhor debt. The biggest change I've made since joining the forum is that I've become a major tightwad. I also learned to cook from scratch, and I get my veggies at a farmer's market -- little changes, but things I didn't used to do.

If the S really HTF, like Mad Max kind of stuff, then I have extended family in more rural areas of the country that I could retreat to. One thing about it, country people know how to survive.

[Pops]

There ya go, six, I'm really not trying to pry into anyone's business, just trying to get an idea if anyone takes any of this seriously enough to do anything and maybe trying to get people to think about their situation.

I've said since I got here that 98% of the population shouldn't even think about buying a farm, so no I'm certainly not suggesting that course. I've had lots of jobs from tire recapper to feed mill hand but mostly I've been in construction/marketing/design. Kind of a weird blend of store planning/marketing that turned into advertising/design. Pretty well the kind of one company position that would lead me to be a 99er today if I hadn't become a freelancer 15 or however many years ago.

Point being that a person that's living paycheck to paycheck in the rich world today more than likely has more options than 98% of the population as a whole. I had my stuff firmly in hand when I told my boss (I was maybe 22 with 2 kids) that I wasn't going to lay carpet any more - and no I don't have another offer. I struggled mightily a dozen years later when I told my boss I wanted to take his ad budget outside as his agency and no I didn't have another offer, same when we moved out here - I had no assurance I'd have any clients.

What I'm saying is job security is like, sooo 1960s, it's an illusion if it was ever reality.

[Cog]

Back about four years ago I got seriously interested in self-sufficiency and that eventually led me to peak oil awareness. Even though I had and still have a good paying job, I started a major move on eliminating debt. I'm one of those people who isn't helping the economy recover by spending any money. My industry of civil engineering/surveying has taken some major hits in our business model and many of my friends have learned what unemployment means. It took a while but the recession has finally caught up to my company.

The only thing of consequence I still have to pay on is a mortgage and even if I got laid off, I could still do it by working a minimum wage job. My family was not particularly excited when I embarked on this penny-pinching phase in my life four years ago but now they see how it has paid off. The urge to get back into the higher end lifestyle is still there but the more economic doom I read about the less inclined I am to do so. Plus, I like living a more simple life-style then before.

It appears to me that we will undergo a continual and one way downward slope towards life getting a bit harder and grimmer each year. I intend to ride the wave down and keep my head up until we get to whatever bottom, if any, there is.

[Thralen]

If I get a pink slip, it'd be a total surprise since I run my own business. At worst, I might mothball the business for a while (since what I make and sell is certainly not a necessity and is more of a luxury item, my sales have gone down dramatically the past couple of years) until I see signs of a real recovery. Being willing to work at whatever is available would mean that there would be several regular jobs I could get should I go that route. Several of the same ones are listed every week in a local magazine/newspaper so I'm pretty sure they'd still be open. The issue being that not a one of them would pay enough to make a difference at the end of the day until my youngest is in school, childcare costs being ludicrous.

In the meanwhile; I run my business with reduced sales, cook from scratch, watch the kids, garden to keep the food budget down, keep chickens, etc... Essentially I do anything I can that keeps the budget down. In another 2 years,when my youngest starts school, should things still be holding together but the business sales still unhappy I might seriously consider a 'regular' job.

In the meanwhile my wife's job is relatively secure but only because it is a union job and she has decent seniority. They keep cutting more and more people but she is still in the top 35% or so (by seniority) of the remaining employees. Unless they outsource the whole mess, her job is fairly secure. The company's clientele include many of those big ol' banks that are too big to fail as well as places like Home Depot so the companies they work with are the type that will be around for a bit yet.

Thralen