Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Can the Climate Be Fixed?

A forum to either submit your own review of a book, video or audio interview, or to post reviews by others.

Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby Graeme » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 17:59:21

Can the Climate Be Fixed?

“If there is an iron law of climate policy, it is that when policies focused on economic growth confront policies focused on emissions reductions, it is economic growth that will win out every time,” writes University of Colorado political scientist Roger Pielke, Jr. in his new book, The Climate Fix: What Scientists and Politicians Won’t Tell You About Global Warming. The world saw this iron law of climate policy fully in action this past year, as both the Obama administration’s push to adopt a domestic cap-and-trade scheme to ration carbon dioxide and the Copenhagen climate change negotiations over a treaty to follow the United Nation’s Kyoto Protocol collapsed before it.


Pielke ends by arguing that the uncertainties about man-made climate change means that the world needs to develop no-carbon energy sources in the future. Given the iron law of climate policy, the new energy sources must be cheaper than the fossil fuels they replace. How can this be accomplished? He proposes that countries levy a $5 per ton carbon tax and that governments use the tens of billions raised to fund research and development for such new energy technologies. Pielke believes that reaching an international agreement on such a course will be far easier than trying to negotiate a comprehensive carbon rationing scheme (which would be ineffective anyway). Such a tax would raise about $30 billion per year in the U.S. Given the past sorry experience of government-funded energy R&D in the United States, Pielke is making a huge leap of faith that federal bureaucrats will get it right this time.

Pielke’s proposals look increasingly likely to garner some bipartisan support on Capitol Hill. Ultimately, The Climate Fix is a clear-eyed analysis of how climate science became politicized and of the magnitude of the technological and economic issues that addressing the uncertainties of any future warming will entail.


reason
Last edited by Tanada on Tue 09 Nov 2010, 21:29:26, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed link
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
User avatar
Graeme
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13258
Joined: Fri 04 Mar 2005, 04:00:00
Location: New Zealand

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby AgentR » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 19:43:45

The disconnect with reality that these people have, is truly astounding. An absolute crushing defeat of the "green"-light party in the US is followed by a statement like "likely to gain bipartisan support", suggestive of a majority... Of course, one democrat and one republican voting for it does qualify as "bipartisan"; but thats not what the quote intends you to believe.

There will be NO carbon tax.
None.
Zilch.

Can you people even begin to imagine what you'd have to attach as sweeteners to get a majority of Republicans in the HOUSE to permit such a bill to even advance in committee? Maybe, just maybe, if you tack in a complete repeal of Obama Care.. you might be getting somewhere. Even then, I'd be skeptical.
Yes, we are. As we are.
And so shall we remain; Until the end.
User avatar
AgentR
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1946
Joined: Fri 06 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: East Texas

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby Crazy_Dad » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 20:48:01

AgentR wrote:There will be NO carbon tax.
None.
Zilch.

Can you people even begin to imagine what you'd have to attach as sweeteners to get a majority of Republicans in the HOUSE to permit such a bill to even advance in committee? Maybe, just maybe, if you tack in a complete repeal of Obama Care.. you might be getting somewhere. Even then, I'd be skeptical.


We are doomed. 330ppm CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is deamed the 'safe' upper limit. We are currently at 380-390ppm and it is accelerating.
There is next to no chance at limiting warming to 2deg, after that you get the highly likely prospect of runaway GH. Death of the Amazon, Methane plumes in the arctic, death of the oceans...There is literally no chance to stop this without some instant changes to the way this civilization works.

And now heres John with the weather.
Crazy_Dad
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby Blacksmith » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 23:10:22

Don't fix what isn't broken!
Employed senior
Blacksmith
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: Sun 13 May 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Athabasca, Alberta

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby careinke » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 23:21:38

AgentR wrote:Can you people even begin to imagine what you'd have to attach as sweeteners to get a majority of Republicans in the HOUSE to permit such a bill to even advance in committee? Maybe, just maybe, if you tack in a complete repeal of Obama Care.. you might be getting somewhere. Even then, I'd be skeptical.


A lot of republicans favor consumption taxes over all others. Consumption taxes are voluntary taxes and therefor less objectionable. They are also easy to understand and administer. A lot of Republicans favor the "Fair Tax" Which is a consumption tax on all new goods and services. It has a prebate feature that pays you forward for all taxes up to the poverty level thereby completley untaxing the poor. It eliminates ALL other taxes including Social Security and Corporate taxes.

Anyway, my guess is this will be harder to get past the Dims than the Repugs.
Cliff (Start a rEVOLution, grow a garden)
User avatar
careinke
Volunteer
Volunteer
 
Posts: 4696
Joined: Mon 01 Jan 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby jmnemonic » Mon 22 Nov 2010, 21:28:14

Well, corporations pay virtually nothing anyway, and it's hard to pay less than zero. But from what I've read of the 'Fair Tax', for it to actually pay the bills it would need to be around 30%-ish or so. So the rich would go from 39% to 30%, meaning less revenue to pay the bills. And those not rich would have their taxes go UP a bit to compensate (e.g. from 25% now to 30% with the Fair Tax). It could work, but it's very regressive and punishes those not rich far worse than those who are rich. (Which is why the rich universally support it - it would allow them to shift more of their tax burden to the middle-class.) So yeah, that'd never get by the Dems. Another downside - rich folks can export their purchasing. Fly into Paris for $1500 and have your $500,000 shopping spree there, then come home. The poor and middle-class wouldn't have such options available to export their tax burdens. Fair tax has zillions of advantages for the wealthy, and none for anyone else. I wouldn't put it past Republicans to try to sell a 'Fair' Tax to the public though, by draping an American flag around it or via fear-mongering of some type.
jmnemonic
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun 21 Nov 2010, 09:28:07

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 22 Nov 2010, 21:42:34

AgentR wrote:
There will be NO carbon tax.
None.
Zilch.



This is where you are bloody crazy.
Whether carbon tax or consumption tax; the fact you are right is what condemns the USA to becoming a 3rd world country.

There is no bottomless oil well anywhere, alternatives must be developed and money must be found to develop these; before peak oil factors rip the middle class to shreds.

The fact the middle class are deluded into thinking God gave Americans the right to drive around in SUV's and live in mansions; therefore will never vote for a tax on fuel use, shows they don't deserve to be a midddle class.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Mon 22 Nov 2010, 21:53:15

8) Can the climate be fixed? NO
But!!
Peak oil has passed. The production and burning of oil WILL decline by four to five percent per year.
That might help a bit.
User avatar
vtsnowedin
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 14897
Joined: Fri 11 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby jmnemonic » Mon 22 Nov 2010, 22:55:12

Lol, vtsnowedin, that's some nice catastrophe judo there! We can be happy about Peak Oil's arrival, because the devastating effects of that will make the devastating effects of climate change slightly less devastating (if we're lucky). I totally respect your ability to extract every last molecule of optimism from such a situation. I picture you as Brian crucified in 'Life of Brian' breaking out into song: 'Always look on the bright side of life...' (Queue whistling.)
jmnemonic
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun 21 Nov 2010, 09:28:07

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby mos6507 » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 00:20:00

Peak oil being a savior to climate change is an old chestnut, and has long been debunked. We may not turn the planet into venus but there's certainly enough hydrocarbons to wipe us and most of our fellow mammals away in the ensuing climate-impacts.
mos6507
 

Re: Can the Climate Be Fixed?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 24 Nov 2010, 00:37:25

vtsnowedin wrote:8) Can the climate be fixed? NO
But!!
Peak oil has passed. The production and burning of oil WILL decline by four to five percent per year.
That might help a bit.


Not really.

CO2 has a residence time of ca. 1000 years in the atmosphere. Every molecule of additional CO2 produced by burning oil, coal, or natural gas goes into the atmosphere to join all the other anthropogenic CO2 produced since the beginning of the industrial revolution ca. 175 years ago. 8)
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26627
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).


Return to Book/Media Reviews

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests