[lulubel]

Hi, I'm Louise. I live in Spain, where my partner and I moved from the UK a year ago.

I've known for a long time about the problems we're going to be faced with when our energy supplies start to seriously dwindle, but in those years I still haven't worked out what I'm going to do about it. At the moment we're doing completely the opposite of what I feel we SHOULD do - we live in an unnecesarily big house with an unnecessary swimming pool, and use the aircon/heating an unnecessary amount of time, as well as buying food that's been shipped at least half way round the world and making no attempt at any kind of self-sufficiency. (To be fair, we did try living in a basic house in the country and growing our own food when we first moved here, and we were so miserable it nearly destroyed our relationship.)

We don't have any children, although my partner wants them. I don't want to bring a child into the world right now, for selfish reasons as much as anything. I could say I don't want to contribute to overpopulation, or I don't want to bring a life into such an uncertain world, but to be honest I don't want the responsibility. We have 2 eleven year old cats, and my focus is on providing them with food, warmth, shelter and safety for the rest of their lives. After that, if things turn bad, I'll either get by or not, but at least I won't be responsible for taking care of anyone.

I actually don't know which way to turn at the moment. Just carry on consuming for as long as we can afford it, or try to establish some place for the future? I don't have that "deer in the headlights" feeling. I've known about what's to come for long enough, but have never been in a financial position to try to secure my future. Now I have choices, I really don't know what to do. My big problem is that I have chronic asthma controlled by drugs, and without modern medicines I'd be lucky to live through my first cold. So, I wonder if it's even worth making arrangements to feed myself.

So that's me. I like Richard Heinberg's writing because he talks about the worst, but proposes ways we could go forward. My instinct is always to look for solutions, however unlikely it is that anyone will attempt them. I've read quite a lot of this forum before I joined, so I know what the situation is. There's not much to add really.

[Cloud9]

My dad built a bunker in the 1960's. He was convinced that nuclear war was on the horizon. The property has been sold and the bunker demolished.

Many of the things we worry about never happen; and if they do, they happen in ways we never expected. Yesterday is a memory. Tomorrow is a hope. Today is all there is. Enjoy that partner. Children are a blessing. If treated right, they will watch your back and care for you until you have breathed your last breath. Don't short today on the prospects of what might happen tomorrow.

[Pops]

Hi Lou, thanks for posting.

It's easy to get in a defeatist frame of mind reading only the bad news. The good news is, there will be no overnight Armageddon due to peak oil. But I think we will be required to change the way we live and the sooner you start making those changes the better.

I always recommend the 5 Rules thread (link in my signature).

Stick around.

[mos6507]

What you're doing here is trying to figure out the meaning of your life. You know, mortality issues. Values issues. Big life decisions. Do you want to "eat, drink, and be merry" or do you carry around ecological guilt? What kinds of life changes can you or do you really want to make? What are your skills and passions? Only you can answer these things. Try to enjoy the moment when you can, but don't stop working these problems through, because if you procrastinate too much, you may find yourself really backed into a corner with a trunk full of regret for not taking the road less traveled when you still could.

[SeaGypsy]

Sometimes, too much money is worse than not enough.
Money is far and away the number 1 cause of marital breakdown, and it's not only at one end of the spectrum.
There are some fairly hefty issues besides, children or lack thereof is right up on the list also.
As Mos has suggested, it looks like you are at a crossroads; time for a deep hard look at what life is really about for you and your partner.

[efarmer]

My humdinger epiphany moment came in 2006 when I attended a school for Permaculture training. I went from outer ring suburbia and high technology design engineer to newbie in a long established communal setting called The Farm in TN, USA. Here, I saw people building the soil, being smart about positioning human needs inside of natural systems that produced yields, and so on and so forth. Most of all, I was immediately struck by people who were able to slow down, take the time to understand each other, to collaborate, and to team in the attempt to meet group and individual needs. It was a tremendously reassuring process for me.

There is an entirely sound and productive world in place at the natural level right now, and yes it is under attack by pollution and population and mischief vis a vis it's human management. But it is still quite capable of sustaining graceful if simpler living arrangements.

I wish you the best of raking your own needs and situation into a heap that works in your world and in such a way as to do no harm to the earth and keep it intact as well.

EF

[Plantagenet]

Hi, I'm Louise. I live in Spain, where my partner and I moved from the UK ...We don't have any children, although my partner wants them. I don't want to bring a child into the world right now, for selfish reasons as much as anything. I could say I don't want to contribute to overpopulation, or I don't want to bring a life into such an uncertain world, but to be honest I don't want the responsibility. We have 2 eleven year old cats, and my focus is on providing them with food, warmth, shelter and safety for the rest of their lives. After that, if things turn bad, I'll either get by or not, but at least I won't be responsible for taking care of anyone.

There's your problem right there. OF COURSE you should want to have a child. Its programmed deep into your DNA as a human being. By denying this part of your own human nature, you are giving in to a number of self-limiting emotions, incuding fear, selfishness, and psychological displacement.

Embrace your full human potential. Don't turn your back on life. Have a child---raise a family----be a mother.

[Carlhole]

I actually don't know which way to turn at the moment.

You've got to read both sides of the peak oil debate. Otherwise, you sink into the predominant groupthink of sites like PeakOil.com. I've read several of Heinberg's books, used to be a subscriber to his newsletter, read his articles, etc. also, but he hasn't said anything new for years.

I just ordered a new book on the peak oil debate from Amazon. The author presents each side of the PO debate and provides data to back up each argument. He leaves it to the reader to make up his/her own mind. I haven't read it yet but it has received many glowing reviews. It's a hardback and typically expensive since was written to be used as a text. Oh well...

Oil Panic and the Global Crisis: Predictions and Myths

Hardly anyone around here seems to read both sides of the debate. Be better informed than your average groupthinker; read about the controversy, digest the information and then check your pulse to see how fearful you remain about our energy future.

[lulubel]

Thanks for your replies.

Pops, I've read the whole 5 rules thread now (took me most of the afternoon!) There's a lot to think about, and it has motivated me to start writing down some of my ideas regardless of how contradictory they seem. Hopefully, I'll get to a point where I'm clear enough in my mind to post them.

Carlhole, I have read plenty, I just like Heinberg's books best. As I said, he tells it like it is (or at least as he sees it), but leaves you with a feeling that everything might just turn out OK, although radically different. If he was a doctor, he'd probably have a good bedside manner. I know it means nothing in terms of how reality is because no-one can predict who (if any of us) will be OK, but at least it makes me feel better.

The theoretical stuff that has stayed with me most is what I read originally in Limits to Growth. Our planet has finite resources, we can't go on like this forever. The capitalist economy and therefore our whole way of life has pretty much had its day. But I will take a look at that book you mentioned and see if it's available on Kindle. I don't buy print books any more. Not getting books shipped halfway round the world is rather like recycling plastics. It's a drop in the ocean compared to the aircon use, but it makes me feel better. I can see a certain theme developing here.

Plantagenet, I want to believe your post was tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not getting any signs that it was. Yes, I agree that having children is programmed deep in our DNA as human beings, but being ruled by our DNA is what's got us into the overpopulation mess we're in at the moment. Fortunately I'm not hearing my biological clock right now, so I can think clearly. I'm not afraid, I'm not experiencing psychological displacement (whatever that is), and if selfishness is wanting to limit your family to what you stand a chance of caring for, then I'll proudly stand up and say I'm selfish.

[efarmer]

Albert Bates who founded the Ecovillage Training Center at The Farm in TN and Richard Heinberg are tight as ticks. The Bill Mollison Permaculture Designer's Manual is a big feed of a book if you can borrow or score a copy to peruse. Sounds like you are in a good place to paddle your canoe in a good direction.

[Plantagenet]

we live in an unnecesarily big house with an unnecessary swimming pool, and use the aircon/heating an unnecessary amount of time, as well as buying food that's been shipped at least half way round the world

Sounds like you are pretty well fixed, at least financially.

if selfishness is wanting to limit your family to what you stand a chance of caring for, then I'll proudly stand up and say I'm selfish.

Whether or not to have kids is entirely your decision, and you are free to make that decision on the basis of selfishness or any other rationale.

But please don't dishonestly suggest you aren't having kids because you don't have "a chance of caring for" kids, while simultaneously boasting about well well off you are financially.

[lulubel]

Wow! I just looked on Amazon, and that book's expensive. I'll have to do some searching.

We're doing OK financially at the moment, but we're living in a house of cards, and I'm more aware of that than my partner is. All of our income is from working over the internet in an industry that's in high demand at the moment. But if/when the internet fails, we'll have our skills and whatever money we have to survive on.

I found a kitten 11 years ago when I lived in London, UK. I sat down and thought long and hard about what I was going to do. If I kept him, he could live for 20 years, so I had to commit to caring for him for that length of time, which I decided I could. He's now 11 years old, and our first priority is to make sure his (and our other cat's) needs are taken care of.

If I had a child in the next couple of years, I couldn't be confident of keeping that child safe, fed, warm, healthy, etc until he/she could survive without me. Other people will disagree (although probably not many on this forum) but I think it's very likely the full "crisis" will hit before any children born now reach adulthood, and even if it doesn't, you don't stop being a mother because your child grows up/leaves home/gets married/whatever. I don't want to live in constant fear that the child I brought into the world will suffer or die because I wanted to be a mother, and there'll be nothing I can do to prevent it. It's amazing what that kind of thinking does for your desire to have a baby.

[Plantagenet]

I don't want to live in constant fear that the child I brought into the world will suffer or die because I wanted to be a mother, and there'll be nothing I can do to prevent it. It's amazing what that kind of thinking does for your desire to have a baby.

I understand. Fear is a very powerful emotion.

Your cats are very lucky to have such a wonderful, loving person to take care of them.

[Pops]

All of our income is from working over the internet in an industry that's in high demand at the moment. But if/when the internet fails, we'll have our skills and whatever money we have to survive on.

That is great, probably the best, most widely possible mitigation on a personal level is telecommuting from somewhere you really like to live - in my opinion anyway. Most everywhere is accessible nowadays, from a penthouse to a small town to a cabin in the woods. The 'net has rapidly become as important as FFs to the modern world and will continue for the foreseeable future.

In fact, my bold prediction for the day is the 'net will one day be seen as the ultimate replacement for fossil fueled transportation.

Throw in a little lower consumption level and some efforts at conservation and independence from FF infrastructure and you are miles ahead of the pack. The best thing is, you could easily make all these changes without ever mentioning doom to your partner! Just by a few trendy magazines to throw on the table, local food, simplicity, etc are the big thing.

One other thing, modern medicine will also be around for a long time. Whole body scans and a new illness for every new cure may not survive but common treatments like asthma drugs and insulin (I was diagnosed with Type I diabetes a couple years ago) will continue as long as you can afford them.

[Ludi]

Wow! I just looked on Amazon, and that book's expensive.

You might want to start with a more beginner level (and price) permaculture book, "Gaia's Garden" by Toby Hemenway, or just look at permie stuff on the web for awhile.

You could visit the forums at http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums#1 for lots of good free info from practicing permaculturists in a supportive environment (no fighting!)

[Carlhole]

Wow! I just looked on Amazon, and that book's expensive.

I know. I winced a little when I pushed the "buy" button. It's a hard cover text; always more expensive.

I only bought it because I've been interested in this topic for so long.

[Ludi]

I've never regretted spending the $$ on the book, I refer to it often. But many people complain it spends too much time on the tropics - that's because the tropics are Mollison's field of expertise. There are other books folks prefer for temperate zones. The Mollison book has a big chapter on deserts which is pertinent to where I live (on the border of desert and transitioning to desert with global warming ).

[americandream]

My dad built a bunker in the 1960's. He was convinced that nuclear war was on the horizon. The property has been sold and the bunker demolished.

Many of the things we worry about never happen; and if they do, they happen in ways we never expected. Yesterday is a memory. Tomorrow is a hope. Today is all there is. Enjoy that partner. Children are a blessing. If treated right, they will watch your back and care for you until you have breathed your last breath. Don't short today on the prospects of what might happen tomorrow.

I dont think we will ever elect to revolt. Those who are disillusioned by the system are largely involved at an emotional level, which as we know, is as fickle as the next paycheque. Very few relate to economies at the level of objectivity and those who do, realise that change is never voluntary, but compelled, by forces beyond our control.

[mos6507]

Edible Forest Gardens I and II and the new Creating a Forest Garden with Martin Crawford are also good. The latter is a great coffee-table book with nice color photos. No need to be pennywise-pound foolish with books like these.

[lulubel]

Thanks for all the permaculture recommendations. I suggested to my partner today that I was thinking of planting some young fruit trees, and that went down quite well, on the basis that trees don't require the same level of involvement as growing your own veg. It was the work involved this year for very little reward that caused the problems, although I think a lot of our problem was caused by not realising this part of Spain has 2 growing seasons, and very little can survive through July and August. I'd still like to grow more of our own food, so hopefully we can re-introduce it gradually.

Regarding medications, I suppose it's really impossible to know what will happen. If it's a hard crash and all hell breaks loose, the chances of surviving would probably be pretty slim anyway, but if some distribution lines stay open, asthma drugs are pretty common. Maybe I'll start stockpiling inhalers anyway.