[mattduke]

Many of you know that I have recently been struggling for the first time in my life with health problems. When I discovered that my problems were a direct result of my vegan diet I was devastated. 2 months ago, after learning the hard way that not everyone is capable of maintaining their health as a vegan, I made one of the most difficult decisions of my life and gave up veganism and returned to eating an omnivorous diet. My health immediately returned. This experience has been humbling, eye-opening, and profoundly transformative. To hear the whole story just keep reading…

http://thevoraciousvegan.com/2010/11/19 ... n-no-more/

[Sixstrings]

Way too much *DRAMA* in the first half. Became a more useful article towards the middle, then ran very long and got into the "drama of it all" again.

Here's the main problem I have with most vegans. They're just being obsessive, in their case food happens to be the object of all their obsession. It's really a flat out eating disorder to obsess that much, in such an esoteric way, about the food you eat.

Food isn't a great cause or political statement or a big drama, it's just food. I respect Buddhists who have religious objections to eating meat, but you know what they don't make a massive drama about it. You can tell the sort of person the article's author is, she's just swung from obsessing over food to now obsessing over her health and back to food again (this time the massive drama of eating meat, and all her vegan friends rejecting her, blah blah).

The fact that vegans have to make such a big damn deal about their food just goes to show they REALLY WANT TO EAT SOME MEAT. If they were happy with their diet they wouldn't have to talk about it all the time.

Back to Buddhists.. the Dalai Llama wrote in one of his books that he has to eat meat for health reasons. But most Buddhists are vegetarian, and I do respect that choice but with vegans there's just so much drama and judgement of meat eaters that it's clear their issues have to do with something other than food.

Lastly, strict veganism makes no sense to me.. you're not hurting a chicken by eating eggs, nor a cow by consuming milk or cheese. Bottom line.. physiologically we're omnivores. That's why our species was successful, since it's an obvious advantage to not be limited to just plant or animal matter.

If vegans had their way, we'd have gone extinct a hundred thousand years ago.

EDIT: I realize I sound pretty judgmental myself, but it's time someone started calling out militant veganism for what it is -- an obsessive eating disorder.

[SeaGypsy]

Lastly, strict veganism makes no sense to me.. you're not hurting a chicken by eating eggs, nor a cow by consuming milk or cheese. Bottom line.. physiologically we're omnivores..

Not true unless you are completely unaware of factory farming methods.
Egg laying chickenslivewhatahuman would see as a hell on earth existence. Males are extricated as soon as the eggs hatch and promptly burned, usually alive. When the layer slows down production about 1 year to 18 months old, she is made into stock cubes.

95% of male daitry cows are killed at birth or very shortly thereafter, to be sold as veal. The chosen dairy young cows are separated on mass and fed from a machine, allowing the continuation of supplying milk to the only species on the planet to suckle in adulthood or to suckle from another species.

I was vegan over 10 years solid.
I now eat free range meats, but have not touched dairy food in over 20 years.
The vegan thing did not agree with my constitution; I found adding small amounts of wild caught or free range meats improved my health greatly.

When I used to eat dairy I would get 4 or 5 serious bouts of influenza a year; now a mild one every few years. I haven't had a sick day from work for many years.

[Serial_Worrier]

Not true unless you are completely unaware of factory farming methods.
Egg laying chickenslivewhatahuman would see as a hell on earth existence. Males are extricated as soon as the eggs hatch and promptly burned, usually alive. When the layer slows down production about 1 year to 18 months old, she is made into stock cubes.

How the animals are treated has really nothing to do with human physiology and dietary needs. Keep your PETA/Vegan ideology to yourself.

[Ludi]

I think the important point is that everyone's physiology is slightly different. Some people can be healthy on a vegan diet, other people will become ill. Some people can eat a grain-based diet and be fine, others will get extremely sick and possibly die on such a diet (Celiac disease).

Everyone should try to work out the diet that best suits their physiology and ethics. There's no "one size fits all" diet for people.

Personally I'm now on a Paleo diet - no grain - because this is a diet I am most likely to be able to raise for myself. It's very different from what I used to eat being mostly vegetarian and, for a short time, vegan.

http://www.nerdheaven.dk/~jevk/paleo_intro.php#menus

[Ibon]

Food isn't a great cause or political statement or a big drama, it's just food. .

Right on. Quiet humble vegans would always be welcome at my dinner table. Obsessed self indulgent drama "holier than though" vegans can kiss my meaty ass.

[efarmer]

Dang Pstarr. Your post has me staring at the remaining unit from my Twinkie twin pack and feeling just too guilty to consume it. It may have to go as a burnt offering to Gaia now. Thanks alot pal...

EF

[Sixstrings]

Right on. Quiet humble vegans would always be welcome at my dinner table. Obsessed self indulgent drama "holier than though" vegans can kiss my meaty ass.

Yup, we all know the kind of "militant" vegans I'm talking about. It's a real contradiction; for people who claim to love and care about animals so deeply, they're downright nasty to their fellow human beings.

[Sixstrings]

Not true unless you are completely unaware of factory farming methods.
Egg laying chickenslivewhatahuman would see as a hell on earth existence. Males are extricated as soon as the eggs hatch and promptly burned, usually alive. When the layer slows down production about 1 year to 18 months old, she is made into stock cubes.

Well, you have a point. I'm sort of divided on this question.. emotionally I feel the same way as you, but my rational side prevents me from driving two hours out of my way and paying four times as much for my groceries. Also, I don't want to devote so much time and attention to being so particular about whether each morsel I eat was ethically produced or not.

And, I recognize that I am a natural omnivore and that nature is fundamentally cruel -- take all your technology away, stranded in the wilderness, you'd soon discover nature is out to GET you not cuddle with you.

Having said that, if humane farming becomes a dominant trend I'd be happy with that. I'm not going to go out of my way to find it, but if that's what my local store sells then I'd pay extra for it as long as everyone else is too.

[Sixstrings]

I know many vegetarians and a lot of vegans. Most are just kids, nice, well-intentioned liberals. Annoying, but they don't really hurt anyone.

Well yeah it's really none of my business if somebody wants to obsess over food. I just think for a lot of these folks, veganism is a way to hide an eating disorder. If a young woman says she's anorexic, she'll end up in a hospital. If she says she's vegan then that's a-okay unless and until she gets sick.

[mos6507]

I agree with pstarr. Food is a political act, to some extent. Read Michael Pollan if you want the scoop on that. We look at the type of car we drive (if we do drive) as much more of an environmental litmus test when food is also a huge part of how we endorse a self-destructive system or not. I don't claim purity on this front, but I'm at least up-front about admitting my failings, and setting strategic goals on dietary changes (think local, seasonal) no different from transitioning away from direct fossil fuel use.

[Sixstrings]

I agree with pstarr. Food is a political act, to some extent.

Mos.. people eat because they're hungry. Always have, always will. And.. the world's billions of hungry don't have the luxury of driving their Prius over to Whole Foods for veggie burgers and organic, ethical lettuce -- all this morality and political statements you're talking about are a first worlder yuppie indulgence.

[Ludi]

all this morality and political statements you're talking about are a first worlder yuppie indulgence.

And so are invalid for some reason? Or what are you saying, because something is a first worlder "indulgence" it has no significance? You seem to be implying that first world behavior has no larger impact than the individual "yuppie" lifestyle.

Next time you make a comment about ethics, morality, politics, etc, I guess someone should point out to you that your opinion is nothing more than a first worlder yuppie indulgence. In fact, nothing you do is anything but a first worlder yuppie indulgence. Your entire life is just that, a first worlder yuppie indulgence.

[americandream]

I agree with pstarr. Food is a political act, to some extent. Read Michael Pollan if you want the scoop on that. We look at the type of car we drive (if we do drive) as much more of an environmental litmus test when food is also a huge part of how we endorse a self-destructive system or not. I don't claim purity on this front, but I'm at least up-front about admitting my failings, and setting strategic goals on dietary changes (think local, seasonal) no different from transitioning away from direct fossil fuel use.

Taking a dump is a political act.

All of human society withs its civil function designed to make the act of taking a dump, eating, or simply walking unmolested in your neighbourhood, is political, if we take that to mean, the sound management of our space by those we appoint.

On the other hand, where our appointees act for themeselves whilst purporting to act for us, that there is unsound management of our space and is failed politics (from our perspective.). Politics is always about the interaction between the collective with the individual. Where the collective is whittled away to the point that your individual needs and wants are not efficiently met (due to our appointees taking precedence), then we look for remedies. There are remedies and remedies however.

[Ludi]

Why it matters what you eat:

Vandana Shiva: Why We Face Both Food and Water Crises

http://www.alternet.org/story/85433/