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The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

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The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 19:38:39

Not only does jobless compensation make securing work less of a pressing issue, it also raises the cost of luring workers from the sidelines. Indeed, in deciding whether to take on new employment, the unemployed must consider the wage offered through the prism of what will be lost thanks to the cessation of government paychecks.


what’s not visible is how many sidelined workers would in fact be employed minus benefits that create incentives for them not to be. Absent benefits that are delaying wage-demand adjustments, it’s a fair bet that many of the unemployed would be working now, and their work efforts would drive up real economic growth on the way to consumption that would increase GDP even more than handouts presently do.


Secondly, if unemployment insurance were abolished altogether, this would profoundly impact the willingness of the average American to save for a rainy day. Simply put, individual savings would rise in concert with the abolishment of jobless benefits. The positive results of such a development should be very apparent.

Indeed, company formation and the jobs that result are solely a function of delayed consumption on the part of individuals. Increased savings would increase the stock of capital necessary on the way to plentiful jobs. A higher savings rate would create a more vibrant employment cushion amid corporate downsizings that would make the very notion of jobless benefits less of a factor in our economic life.

A pretty good article.
http://blogs.forbes.com/johntamny/2010/ ... y-matters/
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 19:43:27

I hope you end up @ Home Depot working part-time afternoon and weekends for $9.

This would be a good lesson for you.

We can pray for this blessing to come and pass.... :)
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 19:51:49

The truth hurts sometimes, I know. Maybe if we wish really hard, we can conjure a free lunch.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 19:55:12

Econmonic growth is dead in it's current configuration. The whole system is comming apart @ the seams. We all know effects of Peak Oil will be the final nail in the coffen.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby mattduke » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 19:57:21

vision-master wrote:Econmonic growth is dead in it's current configuration. The whole system is comming apart @ the seams. We all know effects of Peak Oil will be the final nail in the coffen.

Sure, but economic activity and profit seeking will never stop, even until the last man standing has to decide what to do with this time: try fishing or hunting for berries. With diminishing resources creating valuable goods from less valuable will be all the more imperative.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 20:00:26

Nope, the Whole World MUST change, or we are doomed.

Listen to pstarr.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby americandream » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 20:07:30

mattduke wrote:
vision-master wrote:Econmonic growth is dead in it's current configuration. The whole system is comming apart @ the seams. We all know effects of Peak Oil will be the final nail in the coffen.

Sure, but economic activity and profit seeking will never stop, even until the last man standing has to decide what to do with this time: try fishing or hunting for berries. With diminishing resources creating valuable goods from less valuable will be all the more imperative.


Profit seeking commenced when man commenced separating the commons into private title, a recent phenomenon with its fully formed development emerging under common law. Prior to that, life revolved around communtiy and the needs of that communtiy, for much of human life. The conquest of new territories by the early English as well as the discovery of crude oil hastened the process of commodification. Declining resources will reverse the process.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby Lore » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 20:24:01

This sounds like something that would come out of Forbes.

Not only does jobless compensation make securing work less of a pressing issue, it also raises the cost of luring workers from the sidelines. Indeed, in deciding whether to take on new employment, the unemployed must consider the wage offered through the prism of what will be lost thanks to the cessation of government paychecks.


Blatantly false. The average unemployment compensation is $280/week. A worker making $20/hr, which would be the average U.S. worker's wage, would take home in the neighborhood of $620 a week. Not much incentive to sit on the side lines.

what’s not visible is how many sidelined workers would in fact be employed minus benefits that create incentives for them not to be. Absent benefits that are delaying wage-demand adjustments, it’s a fair bet that many of the unemployed would be working now, and their work efforts would drive up real economic growth on the way to consumption that would increase GDP even more than handouts presently do.


Consumption will actually go down as workers take lesser paying jobs, thereby having less disposable income for all the expensive gadgets, homes and autos. That is if they can find a job in the first place. The return for unemployment benefits is a two to one ratio, that is for every dollar of unemployment spent, two are returned.

Secondly, if unemployment insurance were abolished altogether, this would profoundly impact the willingness of the average American to save for a rainy day. Simply put, individual savings would rise in concert with the abolishment of jobless benefits. The positive results of such a development should be very apparent.


Yes, and we could once again experience the depths of absolute poverty and a return to Hoover Democracy. You first have to have a job to save, secondly that job has to produce an excess income beyond necessary expenditures in order to save. The reason the positive results of such a development are not apparent is because there are none.

Indeed, company formation and the jobs that result are solely a function of delayed consumption on the part of individuals. Increased savings would increase the stock of capital necessary on the way to plentiful jobs. A higher savings rate would create a more vibrant employment cushion amid corporate downsizings that would make the very notion of jobless benefits less of a factor in our economic life.


The delayed consumption would be like that of third world African nations. Again, working for poverty wages, if any wage is to be had at all, will mean there will be no real savings. The only real benefit would be another jump in the wealth of the top tier of income makers.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 20:28:12

Lore wrote:The only real benefit would be another jump in the wealth of the top tier of income makers.



Don't you think that's what the article is all about, really? Lazy unemployed should take jobs at low wages for "the good of the nation" meanwhile corps & CEOs etc are making record profits and bonuses.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby Lore » Mon 29 Nov 2010, 20:32:47

Ludi wrote:
Lore wrote:The only real benefit would be another jump in the wealth of the top tier of income makers.



Don't you think that's what the article is all about, really? Lazy unemployed should take jobs at low wages for "the good of the nation" meanwhile corps & CEOs etc are making record profits and bonuses.


They are also getting their tax break back, but to hell with the average worker and his unemployment.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby Kristen » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 02:09:14

Taking away unemployment benefits would be madness! I know having any sort of compassion for other people is out of style, but give it a try sometimes.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 02:31:38

One of the prime economic effects of deleting unemployment benefits is associated security costs. Very soon a neighborhood can become somewhere you do not walk around in, thus more car dependency. More depression associated costs for preventative and post suicidal and or violent behaviour.
More of that most horrific of crimes: family murder suicide.

If this is really about productivity, simplify red tape and delete 3/4 of the paper shuffling middle class.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 02:41:32

Forbes was at the forefront of offshoring American jobs. They were advocating exporting all our jobs back in the 1980s. Now Steve Forbes is pushing the flat tax (huge savings for him, massive tax increase for you).
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 09:44:53

One man's unemployment benefits are another man's revenue stream. Do you think that the Dollar General and the Wally Mart would be doing as well as they are without the mammary gland of the social welfare system? We can think of some other beneficiaries....

They can conjecture all they want but there is no threat that this stuff will go anywhere....there's too much money to be made.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby mattduke » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 09:49:38

pup55 wrote:One man's unemployment benefits are another man's revenue stream. Do you think that the Dollar General and the Wally Mart would be doing as well as they are without the mammary gland of the social welfare system? We can think of some other beneficiaries....

They can conjecture all they want but there is no threat that this stuff will go anywhere....there's too much money to be made.

That revenue stream was subtracted from someone else.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby mattduke » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 09:51:30

Kristen wrote:Taking away unemployment benefits would be madness! I know having any sort of compassion for other people is out of style, but give it a try sometimes.

"Compassionate" transfers from those who work to those who do not makes the situation worse. How is making the situation worse compassionate?
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby paimei01 » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 10:13:04

Why do you want to work ?
You like it. No problem here.

You want money. Why do you want money ?
To live - to buy stuff you need to survive. Food, water, shelter.
To - have fun, buy a Ferrari, stay at the hotel.
Wait ! Look, I have fun when I - paint. Or - I have fun running around. Or - I have fun and I need less money than you for it.

But we both need food, water, shelter. I don't care how rich you are, you need these. Everyone does. Share the work for these (not for COMMUNISM) but because everyone has a right to these. if you don't see this right - you are looking for trouble. War, crime, Robin Hood, whatever. "Universal healthcare" - without universal basic stuff ? Make a system where people can have direct access to the work - and the results, just for food, water shelter. Simple things. No money involved. Using all the technology, and knowledge they have - it means little work for all. 1 month a year - max. Then people are free to have fun however they want. Work more, bigger shelter, expensive food, hotel (if the hotel finds workers to maintain it - the time suddenly increases in value for all free humans - free to do what they want, the basics are easy to get, as they should be with all this technology!) Nobody forced to join the basic system. You are free to - not join it, if you have other sources... I am sure 80% would join it. And will never want to come back to this madness.

More here:
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2009/08/wh ... -work.html
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby pup55 » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 10:38:29

That revenue stream was subtracted from someone else.


Exactly. At the moment, it is being extracted from the nation's 3-year olds, who are too young to complain....

Even more reason why it will go on much longer.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby diemos » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 11:04:25

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

This is true if the limiting factor in fish production is availability of fishermen.

If the limiting factor in fish production is availability of fish then all you've accomplished is to create a rat's ass bastard who is going to be down at the pond stealing your fish.

Today the limiting factor in the world's ability to produce wealth isn't availability of labor, its availability of energy.
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Re: The Economic Effects Of Paying People Not To Work

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 30 Nov 2010, 11:15:54

diemos wrote:Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

This is true if the limiting factor in fish production is availability of fishermen.

If the limiting factor in fish production is availability of fish then all you've accomplished is to create a rat's ass bastard who is going to be down at the pond stealing your fish.

Today the limiting factor in the world's ability to produce wealth isn't availability of labor, its availability of energy.
Give a man religion and he starves to death praying for fish.
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