Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Why do you care about "law" ?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby paimei01 » Sun 12 Dec 2010, 17:31:17

Would you kill and steal - if there was no law - meaning no police ?
"No, not me! But others sure would! I need police!"
Why are you in a thing called "country" with others that would do that ?
"What can I do about it, that's that"
No. This thing, called "modern country" does not exist. It's a Frankenstein, it's pieces glued together. It needs force - police, to keep it from breaking apart. It needs power - just to keep adding more pieces to itself. And all must fit - all must become a part of IT, no matter who they are!
It was not always like this:
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2010/12/imdb.html
You see - a group of people joining together. They need no laws - to prevent them from stealing from one another. That's how people used to live. That's what we (mostly when young), try to form. That's our nature, that's what we seek.
No Arguments, no treaties, nor Tears of their Friends and Relations, could persuade many of them to leave their new Indian Friends and Acquaintance; several of them that were by the Caressings of their Relations persuaded to come Home, in a little Time grew tired of our Manner of living, and run away again to the Indians, and ended their Days with them. On the other Hand, Indian Children have been carefully educated among the English, cloathed and taught, yet, I think, there is not one Instance, that any of these, after they had Liberty to go among their own People, and were come to Age, would remain with the English, but returned to their own Nations, and became as fond of the Indian Manner of Life as those that knew nothing of a civilized Manner of Living. And, he concludes, what he says of this particular prisoner exchange “has been found true on many other Occasions.”


Nothing wrong with lots of people - on a big territory. If they have the same culture of freedom, they need no state and no laws. They can call themselves a "country". They will have no beggars, no homeless, no orphans. They are a real "country".
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
paimei01
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Romania

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Novus » Sun 12 Dec 2010, 18:18:53

The police are basically thugs themselves. They govern by might makes right and have no morality at all. They exist to protect the property of the haves from the have nots. The greater disparity between rich and poor the more police are required to keep things civil.
User avatar
Novus
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2450
Joined: Tue 21 Jun 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 12 Dec 2010, 18:22:10

Yes people will kill and steal. That guy you were asking these questions lied .
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 12 Dec 2010, 19:59:02

Novus wrote:The police are basically thugs themselves. They govern by might makes right and have no morality at all. They exist to protect the property of the haves from the have nots. The greater disparity between rich and poor the more police are required to keep things civil.


be that as it may, there isnt very many have nots these days.
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 02:11:16

Novus wrote:The greater disparity between rich and poor the more police are required to keep things civil.


And in countries that have attempted to eliminate the disparity between rich and poor, they have/had plenty of police, usually the secret kind.

Image

It's one of those philosophical questions. Does everyone deserve an equal share? If that's the case, who will voluntarily relinquish their surplus in order to put their money where their mouth is? Not many here, no matter how ill-gotten their gains may be.
mos6507
 

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby americandream » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 02:36:05

mos6507 wrote: And in countries that have attempted to eliminate the disparity between rich and poor, they have/had plenty of police, usually the secret kind.

Image

It's one of those philosophical questions. Does everyone deserve an equal share? If that's the case, who will voluntarily relinquish their surplus in order to put their money where their mouth is? Not many here, no matter how ill-gotten their gains may be.


The only method that works in containing the dissolute, greedy, foul, degenerate and plain old unsavoury is the big stick. The USSR under the firm resolve of disciplined communism was distinguishable by its high culture and enviable levels of socialised behaviour. Contrast that with the filthy pornographic hedonism rife in the depraved "free" capitalist hellholes across this globe, where loutish behaviour and dumbed down amusement pass for entertainment.

In fact I would go so far as to add that our undoing has been the obsession with the freedom to behave like infants. Behave like a brat and die like one.
americandream
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 8650
Joined: Mon 18 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 03:21:32

Pretorian wrote:
Novus wrote:The police are basically thugs themselves. They govern by might makes right and have no morality at all. They exist to protect the property of the haves from the have nots. The greater disparity between rich and poor the more police are required to keep things civil.


be that as it may, there isnt very many have nots these days.


Where I am living average household income about $10 a day; while others live what would pass for middle class anywhere. Far fewer police than similar population centers in Australia and far less crime. Income disparity is outweighed by family breakdown as base factor in crime. The more functional a family, the more cohesive the 'village' the less crime and hence need for police. The need for police creates the opportunity for police corruption. No crime, no complaint, no need for police, no benefit for corruption.

The surest force to bring back together the extended family is poverty.
Functionality funding should be a spending priority higher than police.
Everything has been moving in the opposite direction for as far back as anyone still breathing so this transition back to famiy based collectives is going to be a traumatic about face. Crime is likely to spike due to the combination of shock poverty and family discohesion; but the original state of the species suggests reversion may not be too difficult. The fact we have come so far from our origins makes the transition seem impossible.
SeaGypsy
Master Prognosticator
Master Prognosticator
 
Posts: 9285
Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby paimei01 » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 03:48:52

"Yes people will kill and steal". If that's what they want, and they do it not because of the dysfunctional society they live in, just for fun, I have no problem with that.

For all of you, except SeaGypsy, you want to say that a group of friends is an anomaly, a group like Hells Angels - another anomaly. Even the devils in hell - stick together. Not "us". Not because we don't wan't to - but because we are slaves.

You will never be able to explain this:
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2009/08/pr ... hange.html
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
paimei01
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Romania

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 04:05:02

americandream wrote:Image
The USSR under the firm resolve of disciplined communism was distinguishable by its high culture and enviable levels of socialised behaviour.


Is that what the Soviet Gulags and labor camps and the state sanctioned murder of millions of people were for? Teaching people the right kind of socialized behavior?
Image
User avatar
Plantagenet
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 26628
Joined: Mon 09 Apr 2007, 03:00:00
Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Pretorian » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 04:30:27

SeaGypsy wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
Novus wrote:The police are basically thugs themselves. They govern by might makes right and have no morality at all. They exist to protect the property of the haves from the have nots. The greater disparity between rich and poor the more police are required to keep things civil.


be that as it may, there isnt very many have nots these days.


Where I am living average household income about $10 a day; while others live what would pass for middle class anywhere. Far fewer police than similar population centers in Australia and far less crime. Income disparity is outweighed by family breakdown as base factor in crime. The more functional a family, the more cohesive the 'village' the less crime and hence need for police. The need for police creates the opportunity for police corruption. No crime, no complaint, no need for police, no benefit for corruption.

The surest force to bring back together the extended family is poverty.

I do agree with that; however in US for example, in a big city it will not work.
Pretorian
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4683
Joined: Sat 08 Apr 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Somewhere there

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 08:49:06

Large groups of people require laws. It's no coincidence that Hammurabi's Code came out of Babylon, one of the first cities.

I think this has something to do with the fact that small group dynamics break down in very large groups.. in tribes, elders or an alpha male can dominate and control the group, they know everyone in the group and personally interact with each of them every day. In a group of a hundred thousand or more, that's not possible.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Crazy_Dad » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 09:06:00

If our governments continue to favour and facilitate the robbing of the masses for the benefit of the few, then NO I do no longer respect the rule of law.

I will never personally compromise another fellow human. Economically or morally.

The problem is that this put's me at a disadvantage to the sociopathic class who think that enough is Never enough.

The French showed how this turns out in 1848.

Debate.
Crazy_Dad
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri 10 Oct 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby paimei01 » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 09:15:51

"The foundation principle of Indian government had always been the rejection of government. The freedom of the individual was regarded by practically all Indians north of Mexico as a canon infinitely more precious than the individual's duty to his community or nation."
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2010/09/emma-goldman.html
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/
One day there will be so many houses, that people will be bored and will go live in tents. "Why are you living in tents ? Are there not enough homes ?" "Yes there are, but we play this Economy game". Now it's "Crisis" time !Too many houses! Yes, we are insane!
paimei01
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Tue 27 Feb 2007, 04:00:00
Location: Romania

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby JohnDenver » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 09:35:59

paimei01 wrote:"The foundation principle of Indian government had always been the rejection of government. The freedom of the individual was regarded by practically all Indians north of Mexico as a canon infinitely more precious than the individual's duty to his community or nation."
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2010/09/emma-goldman.html


That's why the Indians got defeated. Individual freedom is a wonderful thing, but militarily it's a complete loser.
JohnDenver
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2145
Joined: Sun 29 Aug 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 19:11:18

JohnDenver wrote:
paimei01 wrote:"The foundation principle of Indian government had always been the rejection of government. The freedom of the individual was regarded by practically all Indians north of Mexico as a canon infinitely more precious than the individual's duty to his community or nation."
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2010/09/emma-goldman.html


That's why the Indians got defeated. Individual freedom is a wonderful thing, but militarily it's a complete loser.


Moreover, without property rights and the division of labor, societies remain hopelessly impoverished.

People have an absurdly rosy vision of what life was like for the typical Native American villager prior to 1492. Life expectancy was barely 40. What other data point do you need?
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Xenophobe » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 20:29:53

JohnDenver wrote:
paimei01 wrote:"The foundation principle of Indian government had always been the rejection of government. The freedom of the individual was regarded by practically all Indians north of Mexico as a canon infinitely more precious than the individual's duty to his community or nation."
http://paimei01.blogspot.com/2010/09/emma-goldman.html


That's why the Indians got defeated. Individual freedom is a wonderful thing, but militarily it's a complete loser.


JD...venture forth...update your blog. We know, we know, peak oil has been a complete snoozer, but you posted that Simmons clown picture on your blog and the guy up and croaked! Think of the good you can do for the world if you could castigate some of the other peak oiler windbags with the same result?
User avatar
Xenophobe
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri 06 Aug 2010, 21:13:08

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 22:20:18

Tyler_JC wrote:People have an absurdly rosy vision of what life was like for the typical Native American villager prior to 1492. Life expectancy was barely 40. What other data point do you need?


So life expectancy was no worse than that of Europeans, whereas health was much better than that of Europeans.

So what?
Ludi
 

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby Xenophobe » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 22:28:09

Ludi wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:People have an absurdly rosy vision of what life was like for the typical Native American villager prior to 1492. Life expectancy was barely 40. What other data point do you need?


So life expectancy was no worse than that of Europeans, whereas health was much better than that of Europeans.

So what?


American Indians don't own America no mo'.
User avatar
Xenophobe
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 1083
Joined: Fri 06 Aug 2010, 21:13:08

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 13 Dec 2010, 23:57:34

And I suppose that if China turns fascist and wipes out the US, you will assume that freedom is bad?

Ever read "Guns, Germs, and Steel"? Europeans won for reasons other than Indians having more freedom.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
User avatar
rangerone314
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4105
Joined: Wed 03 Dec 2008, 04:00:00
Location: Maryland

Re: Why do you care about "law" ?

Unread postby americandream » Tue 14 Dec 2010, 01:58:06

Plantagenet wrote:
americandream wrote:Image
The USSR under the firm resolve of disciplined communism was distinguishable by its high culture and enviable levels of socialised behaviour.


Is that what the Soviet Gulags and labor camps and the state sanctioned murder of millions of people were for? Teaching people the right kind of socialized behavior?
Image


So what is America up to in Iraq and Afghanistan to name two places? Sunday school. Lets not forget Guantanamo.

Frankly, the USSR had to guts to do what needed to be done with capitalist scum. Unfortunately, your Islamic pals (Raegan's jihad boys) weren't adequately dealt with by the USSR as by the time it got to the Afghan front, Gorby the weakling was at the wheel.

I'ld go so far as to say that we are long overdue for another bout of cleansing.
americandream
Permanently Banned
 
Posts: 8650
Joined: Mon 18 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest