[deMolay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT ... _embedded#!

[Revi]

Entertaining. We know we are slaves. "To see the farm is to leave it."

I don't really think I'll take off right now, though.

[Carlhole]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=player_embedded#!

This video cannot be arguing for anything except a perfected ideal of Communism.

[deMolay]

The Tax Slave safe on his Tax Farm?

[Sixstrings]

I don't know.. this video is a tad over-dramatic.

We're not the only animals that live in social groups, with social hierarchies, and we're certainly not the only animals who use aggression and force to sort out where everyone stands in that social order. Actually, it's a pretty basic dynamic among mammals .. the strongest animals win the mate and therefore pass on their genes, the strongest and most dominant rise to alpha male, etc.

In our social groups, strength isn't just physical but more often intellectual, and expressed through the power of money and what it can buy.

This is all just common sense, it's just how it is, I think it's a bit of a leap to suggest it's "unnatural." Fact is, we ARE a product of evolution. Therefore, the way we are is perfectly natural. Everything shown in that video is simply what has evolved as the BEST way to ensure the survival of our species. If it weren't the best way, we'd be extinct, simple as that.

Now if you're using this video as a jumping off point to think about social justice and communism and so forth.. the basic problem there is that as ugly as capitalism is, outright communism is destructive and implodes under the weight of inefficiency and lack of motivation after fifty or a hundred years. Capitalism may suck, but there's just no good alternative -- socialism is probably the best balance of the two, as long as the society can afford it.

Also, the video completely ignores the fact that every GOOD thing humanity has ever produced came from this same "human farm" system it derides. Ok, so what if we're like a human farm -- isn't that a survival advantage? We can't all be 100% free and anti-social, or else our species would lose the advantage of social cooperation.

[nobodypanic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=player_embedded#!

This video cannot be arguing for anything except a perfected ideal of Communism.

watch a few more of his videos.

the guy is more right-anarchist, not marxist.

his analysis seems to go right up to and stop at the private business sector - he refuses to follow the logical thread of his argument to its obvious conclusion: you are just as much a slave when you work for another as you are under (as he sees it) the big bad state.

he fails to grasp that the state is nothing more than an instrument of the ruling class for the oppression of the exploited class and since the ruling class are those in command of capital....

it appears to me that he's fumbling around in the dark. he's got half a grasp on what's happening, but no more.

well that's my take on the few i watched.

[Quinny]

Did you actually watch it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=player_embedded#!

This video cannot be arguing for anything except a perfected ideal of Communism.

[sparky]

.
Same basic idea , Carlin style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZY ... re=related

[mos6507]

This is all just common sense, it's just how it is, I think it's a bit of a leap to suggest it's "unnatural." Fact is, we ARE a product of evolution. Therefore, the way we are is perfectly natural.

Ludi to link to anthropik in 3, 2, 1...

[SeaGypsy]

Of course this isn't supposed to be a jump off point for advocating communism; it's blatently anti statist.
That the guy didn't peg seperate 'levels' of slavehood in no way undermines his argument.
Only a click away from this guy is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c49q3PGof2w



The AntiTerrorist's position is in direct response to human farming and goes into the legalisms by which we are in fact 'Owned' by the State. He also goes into great detail about how to mount a legal position denying State primary or corporate ownership of an individual (read 'Ownership' as "Right to forcibly extract value from' or hold to account to Contract whether actual or implied").

One of the things I find interesting about living in the Philippines is that documentary compliance is minimal compared to developed countries. 15% of people here have no birth certificate, 45% have multiple conflicting identity papers or wrong details on primary documents. 90% of people pay NO TAX.
So I guess that is to say under the human farming principle, in this case, the chickens have flown the coop.

If that's what is meant by 'failure of the human farming model' then I can see it happening right now, right here. Unfortunately it's just another stage in the building momentum of collapse.
But for improper family management education and availability in the Philippines, it is mostly quite functional for a virtual failed state. Fully one third of the countries budget comes from the Catholic owned San Miguel Brewery Company, whose profits rival the total tax take of the government.
That in a country where a case of beer home delivered will set you back $6. Most of the rest comes from international mining ventures.

I think that's the direction this argument takes, that Statism as the means by which free range capitalists maintain control of their stock and Statism's legs are falling from beneath are essentially valid.
I think on the way down Olduvai we will have a long period of 3rd worldization in what was the 1st world. The fact is that will mean some kind of neo fuedalism. I expect this to take the rest of my life to happen. I also expect places with the furthest to fall to have the hardest landings. The process may well leave currently 3rd world countries far better places to live in the future than post collapse 1st worlders.

[Sixstrings]

One of the things I find interesting about living in the Philippines is that documentary compliance is minimal compared to developed countries. 15% of people here have no birth certificate, 45% have multiple conflicting identity papers or wrong details on primary documents. 90% of people pay NO TAX.
So I guess that is to say under the human farming principle, in this case, the chickens have flown the coop.

Thanks for the details on what it's like in the Philippines. Everyone having mixed up identity papers or none at all, most paying no tax, the government not doing much -- actually sounds like a pretty free place. Bad place to be poor in I guess, but then that's the trade off isn't it?

Incidentally.. I'm reminded of a few Filipinos I've known. They very much loved being here in the US, they were very proud of being middle or upper middle class, and very happy at being part of our "human farm" here in the states rather than back in the Philippines. So that does beg the question.. if first world "human farm" life is so bad like the video says, then why do immigrants love it here?

[SeaGypsy]

Because it's a trade off.

Being here I meet plenty of Pinoy who have lived in the USA or other rich countries and have freely chosen to come back here, not all of them at retirement age. My wife has Australian residency but has no interest in living there. Being a Pinoy on a US Veteran's retirement benefit is the life of a very wealthy American. The life of children here, if they have enough food, is infinitely socially healthier than in the west. Many provincial areas are relatively prosperous. In my town of 30,000 I can hang out in the main street all day and maybe get hit on by 1 beggar if any. Family structure is strong and extensive, that's what keeps it together despite the odds being heavily in favour of calamity.

If you get right into reading on these themes, as I have, being able to live without state/ corporate control over your life is extremely important if you want to avoid the consequences of being 'owned' in a newly failed former super state.

[PrestonSturges]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A&feature=player_embedded#!

This video cannot be arguing for anything except a perfected ideal of Communism.

watch a few more of his videos.
the guy is more right-anarchist, not marxist.
his analysis seems to go right up to and stop at the private business sector - he refuses to follow the logical thread of his argument to its obvious conclusion: you are just as much a slave when you work for another as you are under (as he sees it) the big bad state.
he fails to grasp that the state is nothing more than an instrument of the ruling class for the oppression of the exploited class and since the ruling class are those in command of capital....
it appears to me that he's fumbling around in the dark. he's got half a grasp on what's happening, but no more.
well that's my take on the few i watched.

'Zactky - guys like this are riding the short bus to slavery. Get rid of government, and you merely remove the middleman. He'll get you your slavery factory direct. People like this are baitfish or decoys for the rest of us.

You also have to love guys that flirt with the idea of rejecting currency that are above all concerned with money (taxes), did not watch to see how that figured into his fantasy

[PrestonSturges]

Because it's a trade off.

Being here I meet plenty of Pinoy who have lived in the USA or other rich countries and have freely chosen to come back here, not all of them at retirement age. My wife has Australian residency but has no interest in living there. Being a Pinoy on a US Veteran's retirement benefit is the life of a very wealthy American. The life of children here, if they have enough food, is infinitely socially healthier than in the west. .

And they can grow up to be President of the United States.

[SeaGypsy]

It's not a fantasy at all, it's a legal fact.
The response to the need for exchange post 'escape' is not conditioned against the use of money but definitely against the use of the banking system. It is irrelevant to the freeman argument whether one trades in currency or chickens. The point is to escape the attachment between the legal fiction 'you' and the actual self; something which can only be achieved in renouncing 'legal' posessions altogether.
You can hold such property only as you are able to maintain and defend posession of without the support of law.Your means of living is limited to direct trade and production. You have no bank accounts, no properties registered in your name, no written contracts, no taxable income, no driver's license, no insurance, no paperwork. Everything you do is done at your own risk, you are 100% liable for the consequences of your actions.
You do nothing for the State and you ask nothing of the State.

This may all seem a bit far fetched right now but when time comes to pay the piper and there's nothing left to pay, all the collateral people have is themselves. The unprepared will have no choice but to hand themselves over to debt bondage and all it takes to make it happen is an act of State.

Laugh it off if you like but I find the subject and it's concepts interesting and it's proponents no fools when it comes to understanding the relationship between the Individual and the Corporation. I think their concepts are a vital thread in the understanding required for proper preparation for doom.
If wrong in their predictions there is no harm in disappearing off the legal/ financial grid.

[deMolay]

What it is really about is how the various forms of control have developed since the first ancient farmers hired the mercs to defend their farms and how this has been going on since the first empire arose. Whether it was the Church or the Feudal State, Communism or Democracy. It is about the power of the state, any state over the lives of human beings. This book came out in 1997, it is a very good read with a lot of historical footnotes to back it up. As the Nation State fails will we become free? The Sovereign Individual. http://www.isil.org/resources/libertydo ... -book.html

[Carlhole]

What it is really about is how the various forms of control have developed since the first ancient farmers hired the mercs to defend their farms and how this has been going on since the first empire arose. Whether it was the Church or the Feudal State, Communism or Democracy. It is about the power of the state, any state over the lives of human beings. This book came out in 1997, it is a very good read with a lot of historical footnotes to back it up. As the Nation State fails will we become free? The Sovereign Individual. http://www.isil.org/resources/libertydo ... -book.html

Read about libertarianism and die anyway in the PO collapse and de-population. That seems to be your advise.

[deMolay]

As you have lived on your knees Carl, so you will die on your knees. That seems to be your advice Carl.

[Carlhole]

As you have lived on your knees Carl, so you will die on your knees. That seems to be your advice Carl.

Oh, what a bunch of BS. How is that my message, Einstein? I bet you decline to explain.

How can any of the political rants you post make any sense at all unless you're a total cornie. Just like me! We both think alike on the subject of PO - there won't be any collapse or die-off to worry about.

Since there will not be any such cataclysm, you must believe that political ideology will remain relevant indefinitely.

[deMolay]

Carl, Carl. Did I touch a nerve? If you had read what I had posted in the thread you will note, I advised no one. But if even one of the Farmed Humans wakes up, is that not a good thing? And just for the record I am not a cornie. I see a die off as the end result. The question is will we all die in camps, scrambling in a street for crumbs, or like free humans.