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Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

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Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 12:01:06

The oligarchy is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, corporate, or military control. The word oligarchy is from the Greek words "ὀλίγος" (olígos), "a few" and the verb "ἄρχω" (archo), "to rule, to govern, to command". Such states are often controlled by a few prominent families who pass their influence from one generation to the next.

Oligarchies have been tyrannical throughout history, being completely reliant on public servitude to exist.

Robert Michels believed that any political system eventually evolves into an oligarchy. He called this the iron law of oligarchy. According to this school of thought, modern democracies should be considered as oligarchies. In these systems, actual differences between viable political rivals are small, the oligarchic elite impose strict limits on what constitutes an acceptable and respectable political position, and politicians' careers depend heavily on unelected economic and media elites.

Corporate oligarchy is a form of power, governmental or operational, where such power effectively rests with a small, elite group of inside individuals, sometimes from a small group of educational institutions, or influential economic entities or devices, such as banks, commercial entities that act in complicity with, or at the whim of the oligarchy, often with little or no regard for constitutionally protected prerogative.

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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 12:13:20

Yes Cid we do.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 12:26:42

Well, is that acceptable to you?
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 12:57:00

8) If John McCain had won the presidency, a member of the country's military "Royalty" you might have a point, but instead a half black, half Kenyon born in Hawaii of a white Kansan mother, with an Ive League education he received based on merit and some affirmative action won the job. And just two presidents ago before him we had Bill Clinton which only patrician background or connection was through his wife.Now consider Charlie Rangel and Barney Frank , are they members of some elite group with hereditary holds on power.So no its a nice myth but it has little basis in fact.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby basil_hayden » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:07:42

vtsnowedin wrote:8) If John McCain had won the presidency, a member of the country's military "Royalty" you might have a point, but instead a half black, half Kenyon born in Hawaii of a white Kansan mother, with an Ive League education he received based on merit and some affirmative action won the job. And just two presidents ago before him we had Bill Clinton which only patrician background or connection was through his wife.Now consider Charlie Rangel and Barney Frank , are they members of some elite group with hereditary holds on power.So no its a nice myth but it has little basis in fact.


To disprove Cid's thesis, you must reference an individual in power not on the corporate oligarchy payroll.

Ultimately, if you're getting more out than you're putting in, oligarchy is fine.
When this changes, so will the oligarchy.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:13:23

its been like this since 20-30 000 000 BC and it will be like that as long as humanoids will live in groups. Gosh, even baboons and japanese macacas live in an Oligarchy.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:15:40

vtsnowedin wrote:8) If John McCain had won the presidency, a member of the country's military "Royalty" you might have a point, but instead a half black, half Kenyon born in Hawaii of a white Kansan mother, with an Ive League education he received based on merit and some affirmative action won the job. And just two presidents ago before him we had Bill Clinton which only patrician background or connection was through his wife.Now consider Charlie Rangel and Barney Frank , are they members of some elite group with hereditary holds on power.So no its a nice myth but it has little basis in fact.

Plus McCain is neck deep in the gambling industry (he avoided being indicted in Abramoff scandal) and married into a brewing fortune.

The Bush family defines "oligarchy," plus they are a creation of the oil industry and in bed with the Saudis at every turn.

Bush vs. Gore was a little uncomfortable because they were both "Skull & Bones" Yale boys. Nobody ever said if Bush and Gore overlapped at S&B or paddled each others bare ass during pledge week.

Of course conservatives have to call Obama an "elitist" at every turn so that nobody will complain when their next candidate arrives in a solid gold Rolls Royce with giant diamonds for headlights.
Last edited by PrestonSturges on Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:17:36

basil_hayden wrote:[]To disprove Cid's thesis, you must reference an individual in power not on the corporate oligarchy payroll.

Ultimately, if you're getting more out than you're putting in, oligarchy is fine.
When this changes, so will the oligarchy.

:evil: Impossible to do without access to other peoples bank records. Impossible to prove Cid right also.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Novus » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:23:09

Yes we live in a defacto Oligarchy but it is only acceptable in the sense that it is what it is and it will only exist as long we the people choose to go along with it.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:31:52

8) As a rule I am against the presidency or any seat in congress being considered a hereditary position or the exclusive property of the ivy league alumnus. But the good old boys still have to stand for election and as many have found out even if Daddy gives you his rolodex and your inheritance you cannot buy an election. You can pay to get your message out but if it's the wrong message you will lose no matter how big the ad budget.
I don't mind having to chose between two skull and bones members as long as I don't have to choose between two Sarah Palins.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Cid_Yama » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:39:00

You make the mistake of believing the President or members of Congress are the elites.

They are just mid-level managers. Facilitators for the oligarchy.

There is not a single 2%er in any of those positions.

The richest member of Congress in John Kerry at $188 million. Not even close.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 13:47:16

We have always lived in an oligarchy. But hey, I've got MINE, so who cares?
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby vtsnowedin » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 14:01:07

8) The POTUS and senior members of congress are mid level managers??
O....K that puts a different slant on it.
188 million price of admission? Clearly non of our military need apply. I suppose you throw out all self made nouveau riche like Bill Gates and Michel Dell.
Just who is on your list?
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby ian807 » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 14:15:41

Yes, we do, and what does my acceptance matter? We live with gravity too. If I'm falling off a cliff, I find it unacceptable. Gravity does not care. Neither does the pre-wired hominid neurophysiology that ensures a pattern of hierarchical domination (i.e. oligarchy).
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 15:52:59

ian807 wrote:Yes, we do, and what does my acceptance matter? We live with gravity too. If I'm falling off a cliff, I find it unacceptable. Gravity does not care. Neither does the pre-wired hominid neurophysiology that ensures a pattern of hierarchical domination (i.e. oligarchy).


Even in the most hard-line Communist regimes there is a hierarchy. It is human nature. Those arguing against it on this forum(Cid Yama and his minions) are certifiable.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby davep » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 16:13:17

Serial_Worrier wrote:Even in the most hard-line Communist regimes there is a hierarchy.


Anarchism is a valid solution to such hierarchies.
What we think, we become.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 16:20:36

The biggest tools of the oligarchy are Fox News and the Tea Party. They carry the water for the wealthy trying to undermine anything resembling an elected system of government.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Cloud9 » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 17:44:45

And exactly who appointed Tim Geithner?
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby ian807 » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 18:01:13

Serial_Worrier wrote:
ian807 wrote:Yes, we do, and what does my acceptance matter? We live with gravity too. If I'm falling off a cliff, I find it unacceptable. Gravity does not care. Neither does the pre-wired hominid neurophysiology that ensures a pattern of hierarchical domination (i.e. oligarchy).


Even in the most hard-line Communist regimes there is a hierarchy. It is human nature. Those arguing against it on this forum(Cid Yama and his minions) are certifiable.

Of course, that's different from saying "I like hierarchies." I don't particularly. It's just the way hominids are built. If I thought anarchy worked, I'd be a fan. Of course, there are no significant anarchic cultures or societies. Increasing group size and limited resources always results in a chief, even with chimps and baboons. The closest hominid anarchy exists in Orangutans. They are solitary, for the most part.
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Re: Do we live in an Oligarchy? Is this acceptable?

Unread postby Pretorian » Wed 29 Dec 2010, 18:08:51

ian807 wrote: The closest hominid anarchy exists in Orangutans. They are solitary, for the most part.

Arent they the smartest animals after humans? But yeah, not an option for groups of 3-4+
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