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2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

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2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Carlhole » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:38:35

TIME

Computers are getting faster. Everybody knows that. Also, computers are getting faster faster — that is, the rate at which they're getting faster is increasing.True? True.

So if computers are getting so much faster, so incredibly fast, there might conceivably come a moment when they are capable of something comparable to human intelligence. Artificial intelligence. All that horsepower could be put in the service of emulating whatever it is our brains are doing when they create consciousness — not just doing arithmetic very quickly or composing piano music but also driving cars, writing books, making ethical decisions, appreciating fancy paintings, making witty observations at cocktail parties.

If you can swallow that idea, and Kurzweil and a lot of other very smart people can, then all bets are off. From that point on, there's no reason to think computers would stop getting more powerful. They would keep on developing until they were far more intelligent than we are. Their rate of development would also continue to increase, because they would take over their own development from their slower-thinking human creators. Imagine a computer scientist that was itself a super-intelligent computer. It would work incredibly quickly. It could draw on huge amounts of data effortlessly. It wouldn't even take breaks to play Farmville.


Doomer: "Yeah, but Moore's Law is going to be over soon!"

Moore's Law says that the number of transistors that can be placed on a single chip doubles every 18 months.

You're right, Moore's Law will be over soon because there are a number of new quantum technologies that promise to replace our current paradigm of creating computing power. Here's one I read about last week: The Smallest Computing Systems Yet: Nanowire transistors could run inside microscopic biosensors or environmental sensors.

The difficult thing to keep sight of when you're talking about the Singularity is that even though it sounds like science fiction, it isn't, no more than a weather forecast is science fiction. It's not a fringe idea; it's a serious hypothesis about the future of life on Earth. There's an intellectual gag reflex that kicks in anytime you try to swallow an idea that involves super-intelligent immortal cyborgs, but suppress it if you can, because while the Singularity appears to be, on the face of it, preposterous, it's an idea that rewards sober, careful evaluation.
Last edited by Carlhole on Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:46:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:45:00

Carlhole wrote:Nanowire transistors could run inside microscopic biosensors or environmental sensors.


I could send you $1000. :)
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Carlhole » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:49:16

Ludi wrote:
Carlhole wrote:Nanowire transistors could run inside microscopic biosensors or environmental sensors.


I could send you $1000. :)


Who knows what the fark you mean, but please do.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:51:33

"World's total CPU power: one human brain"

http://arstechnica.com/science/news/201 ... cities.ars
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 15:58:14

I'm with Carl on this one. Assuming no collapse, the singularity WILL happen. And then what comes next is even more interesting.. what will people do when AI can do most our work? It's a huge question, it has to mean the end of capitalism and some kind of new communism. Because capitalism can't sustain itself if the plebs have no jobs to get paid for and buy Stuff.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 16:21:03

Jesus WILL return in clouds of glory. :)
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 16:26:29

Ludi wrote:Jesus WILL return in clouds of glory. :)


Why do you doubt it, Ludi? Assuming no collapse, I mean. Just look back at your own life and think about the exponential increase in processing power you've witnessed -- always increasing, while getting smaller too.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby green_achers » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 16:47:47

...whatever it is our brains are doing when they create consciousness — not just doing arithmetic very quickly or composing piano music but also driving cars, writing books, making ethical decisions, appreciating fancy paintings, making witty observations at cocktail parties.

OK, so I'm writing an article about some sort of great new thing and it comes time to make a list of things that human brains do that differentiate human consciousness from machine computational power. What's the first thing I decide to list? Oh, of course, driving cars.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 17:06:53

green_achers wrote:What's the first thing I decide to list? Oh, of course, driving cars.


The first watershed will be the development of language fluent AI. All it needs to do is be able to speak, understand questions, and answer them. That right there will eliminate oodles of jobs. Once it ramps up then there goes the other jobs -- accountants, engineers, lawyers, teachers, doctors, all of them. No human could ever compete with fully developed sentient AI.

I really wonder what we'll do.. business will want this tech, I mean who doesn't love free labor right?
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 17:26:21

Sixstrings wrote:I'm with Carl on this one. Assuming no collapse, the singularity WILL happen. And then what comes next is even more interesting.. what will people do when AI can do most our work? .


Several options:
1) Nothing;
2) Passing papers to each other;
3) Carrying heavy items (boulders, etc) from a point A to a point B, and then back to point A;
4) Provide some services, both usefull and useless to all of the above, assuming there is something robots cant do better ( like sex, etc);
5) provide entertainment for all of the above;

Pretty much like we do now.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby mididoctors » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 19:03:25

The whole singularity premise is flawed... I think,

the notion that an exponential rise in the number of logic gates in a given volume equates to a similar exponential rise in utility of ability is profoundly simplistic.

If my intel duo core computer is a million times more powerful than my mac se is my word processor now a million times better?

no because over capacity on a narrow evolutionary path does not a god being make.. certain tasks and technological barriers will not be overcome by raw computational power or attempts to mimic synaptic function. conversely certain abilities do not magnify by throwing more resources behind it

Lieberg and all that.. when you can do something you can do it...over investing on a certain technological path is probably counter productive.

I would argue this is already occurring in computer technology.. the definition and demands of the applications are stepping up to meet the computational power as opposed to genuinely new abilities emerging from the power.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Shar_Lamagne » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 19:31:47

I'm surprised that vision-master isn't over here, telling you aliens are harvesting human brains to run their spaceships. :lol:
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby rangerone314 » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 20:31:25

One of two things happens.

A) The machines/AI become fully independent and decide humans are useless and destructive. Call this the "Terminator/Matrix/I-Robot" scenario.

B) The rich and powerful retain control of the machines/AI, and use them to ensure that the rest of humanity remains under them, forever, under total surveillance. There will not be robots for all and we will not see mass equality for all.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby rangerone314 » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 20:32:17

Shar_Lamagne wrote:I'm surprised that vision-master isn't over here, telling you aliens are harvesting human brains to run their spaceships. :lol:

Does anyone else suspect that vision-master's has already been swapped out for an alien brain?
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Arthur75 » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 21:05:16

Again, singularity, Artificial intelligence and all that, is nothing but puritan self hate retarded projection junk, nothing more
(and real software or hardware creative people do not give the slightest fuck about this charlatan crap, of course)
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 23:53:09

Sixstrings wrote:
green_achers wrote:What's the first thing I decide to list? Oh, of course, driving cars.


The first watershed will be the development of language fluent AI. All it needs to do is be able to speak, understand questions, and answer them. That right there will eliminate oodles of jobs. Once it ramps up then there goes the other jobs -- accountants, engineers, lawyers, teachers, doctors, all of them. No human could ever compete with fully developed sentient AI.

I really wonder what we'll do.. business will want this tech, I mean who doesn't love free labor right?


Imagine - AI managers! Especially the ones who LOVE to outsource/eliminate jobs! Will be cosmic justice for sure.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sat 12 Feb 2011, 23:55:03

Arthur75 wrote:Again, singularity, Artificial intelligence and all that, is nothing but puritan self hate retarded projection junk, nothing more
(and real software or hardware creative people do not give the slightest fuck about this charlatan crap, of course)


Ray Kurzweil simply HATES that he's gonna die and wants the "singularity" to speed up to save him. By saving, meaning somehow he'll get his "soul" transfered to a cyborg body. That's what his rantings are all about.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby Narz » Sun 13 Feb 2011, 00:46:55

Sixstrings wrote:I'm with Carl on this one. Assuming no collapse, the singularity WILL happen. And then what comes next is even more interesting.. what will people do when AI can do most our work? It's a huge question, it has to mean the end of capitalism and some kind of new communism. Because capitalism can't sustain itself if the plebs have no jobs to get paid for and buy Stuff.

Pretty much agree. Interesting times no matter how the cookie crumbles.
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Re: 2045: The Year Man Becomes Immortal

Unread postby americandream » Sun 13 Feb 2011, 01:10:04

Sixstrings wrote:I'm with Carl on this one. Assuming no collapse, the singularity WILL happen. And then what comes next is even more interesting.. what will people do when AI can do most our work? It's a huge question, it has to mean the end of capitalism and some kind of new communism. Because capitalism can't sustain itself if the plebs have no jobs to get paid for and buy Stuff.


Astute observation, sixstrings. There is no reason why technology cannot be harnessed to take us to the edge of the cosmos, but not in a JIT system which consumes resources as capitalism does, and whilst we are technologically restricted to the earth's confines. A modernity which dispenses with this time constrained resource usage may buy us time to extend the application of our technical capabilities.
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