[cualcrees]

Franky its kind of shocking, you don’t need to look too hard between the lines to see that they are scared. They more of less come right out and say that even with new discoveries and efficiency measure there simply wont be enough oil (energy) for everyone that wants it, and that a return to the “price boom,” that was interrupted when the economy fell apart, could (and probably will) return. They also say (in their special oil company speak) that global warming is going to be a big problem, and going to get bigger.

If you run this through a translator into normal speak it basically says, “peak oil is here, and we are worried”.

http://www.blog.thesietch.org/2011/02/14/oil-company-admits-future-is-going-to-be-rough/

[americandream]

The future is going to be revolutionary. There is no way that we can support the American style aspirations of the world's as yet largely undeveloped 5 billion. Interestingly, Egyptian protestors biggest gripe was that they felt that they were a first world peoples in a third world country. Loosely translated, "I want to be free to live like Westerners".

Enjoy it whilst you can. In all likelihood, we will get a few more decades of the good life (if my assumptions regarding value are correct). Anyone born in the past decade is up a creek however.

[kiwichick]

ad; +1

we are already at least 2 billion over populated

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/overpo ... nindex.pdf

[AirlinePilot]

Hey no problem! Everyone can just go get a Chevy Volt and all our problems will be solved!

[americandream]

ad; +1

we are already at least 2 billion over populated

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/overpo ... nindex.pdf

A combination of stupid economics, irrational and illogical cultural norms (religious prescriptions on morality, women, family, the individual and breeding) as well as the consequences in bloated human numbers plus widespread ignorance are guaranteed to take us to the very limits of capital's exploitation of this planet. One can only but hope that reason will rise to the fore as we confront these challenges. Authoritarian communitarianism with strong rules on gender equality and an end to absurd notions on god, women, breeding and the family will have to be put in place if we are to have a chance of a decent survival.

[peripato]

Enjoy it whilst you can. In all likelihood, we will get a few more decades of the good life (if my assumptions regarding value are correct). Anyone born in the past decade is up a creek however.

It's highly unlikely we will enjoy this much more life, let alone "the good life". I think you are seriously overestimating human capacity to deal with the shit coming down the pipe. The present reminds me of pre-World War 1 Europe, which lurched from crisis to crisis over a 10-15 year period, always on the brink of unwanted war, until it finally went over the edge in an orgy of death and destruction which played out for 3 decades. One crisis too far and the result was abrupt and swift systemic change for the Great Powers of the Old World.

[americandream]

Enjoy it whilst you can. In all likelihood, we will get a few more decades of the good life (if my assumptions regarding value are correct). Anyone born in the past decade is up a creek however.

It's highly unlikely we will enjoy this much more life, let alone "the good life". I think you are seriously overestimating human capacity to deal with the shit coming down the pipe. The present reminds me of pre-World War 1 Europe, which lurched from crisis to crisis over a 10-15 year period, always on the brink of unwanted war, until it finally went over the edge in an orgy of death and destruction which played out for 3 decades. One crisis too far and the result was abrupt and swift systemic change for the Great Powers of the Old World.

World War 1 was preceded by it's own commodity crisis, Germany's need for materials and markets. In essence, the early stages of capitalism faced a systemic crisis which was resolved by it's adaptability. Likewise WWII. So to the extent that I caution you to take a measured approach to capitalism's collapse, it is for the simple fact that the value latent in capitalism's as yet unexhausted value will, in all reasonable likelihood, subsidise last ditch efforts to keep it afloat. And the world is awash with surplus value and resources such as coal, bio-fuel capacity (capitalism's food achilles heel) and a humanity hungry for a taste of Americana.

[peripato]

World War 1 was preceded by it's own commodity crisis, Germany's need for materials and markets. In essence, the early stages of capitalism faced a systemic crisis which was resolved by it's adaptability. Likewise WWII. So to the extent that I caution you to take a measured approach to capitalism's collapse, it is for the simple fact that the value latent in capitalism's as yet unexhausted value will, in all reasonable likelihood, subsidise last ditch efforts to keep it afloat. And the world is awash with surplus value and resources such as coal, bio-fuel capacity (capitalism's food achilles heel) and a humanity hungry for a taste of Americana.

There were plenty of resources left, the world was relatively empty and pristine, compared to now. Yet pre-WWI Europe still fell apart, despite all best intentions.

AD, I don't doubt that the crony-capitalist system can keep afloat for a few more years, after all we have some of the "finest minds" working on it, only that systems theory shows that the change from a stable to a chaotic state is quick and harsh.

In a full to bursting world, hitting hard limits, belief in our continued capacity to adapt in the face of the rapid devolution to come, is I believe, absurd.

[americandream]

peripato

Capital's various stages are always characterised by apparently terminal crises. At each stage, these crises are resolved by innovation. Regional capital resolved both the world wars by in essence globalising those regions to give rise to the West, in the process making available to capital all the materials and markets that had been opened by the British Empire in both it's colonies as well as ex-colony, the US. In the process, systems were developed to amplify the value latent in these resources as well as widen their availability by a variety of means.

We are currently going througn the exact same process with the extension of capital to Asia and the annexation of the remaining resources necessary to operate this market (Iraq and the USSR's demise was the first shot. The bourgeoisie revolution in Egypt (read Arab world) is a continuation of this process of corraling off the remaining resources for further expansion and accumulation). Much of what you read about in the press is largely posturing..a squaring off of the elites as they squabble over their share of this cake. What I would like to see are real examples of the breakdown of the move to free markets and of course, that has not yet arrived. In fact, the economic crises has given rise to a call for more deregulation.

I think we will be looking at serious crisis when capital takes a flight from risk en masse. China for one will have to show signs of stresses and I don't see them yet. In fact, the reverse is true as capital continues to flow into the PRC and China is the ideal canary being a planned economy based largely around a more centralised perspective on development and resourcing.

[Denny]

While a lot of people have pointed out that the U.S. is either guilty of being a pig at the trough, or else a victim, the U.S. will be screwed by the prices to come, another real shocker is China's position.

I think most of us have read that China is eagerly building 30,000 miles of interstate type expressways, (in league with the USA, which has 46,000 miles) but how many realize the extent of China's massive airport expansion program?

Check this out:
[urlhttp://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-03/25/content_6563240.htm][/url]

A few snippets. At the end of 2006, Chinas had 147 airports. The number will grow to 244 by 2020.

And, while U.S. airline traffic has grown modestly over the past decade, and some years even decreasing, China expects passenger traffic to grow 11.4% a year and package traffic to grow 14% per year. So, we can anticipate a lot of thirsty planes, just in China, adding to the world demand no matter how much in the way of conservation efforts or just plain recession effects occur in the west.

China is not the only growth economy which will be competing for every drop of oil. Add such other populous places as India and Brazil to this demand equation. Likely all of which will see double digit percentage increases for years to come in the thirsty category of cars on the road and planes in the air.

Scary for most of us in the west!

[americandream]

While a lot of people have pointed out that the U.S. is either guilty of being a pig at the trough, or else a victim, the U.S. will be screwed by the prices to come, another real shocker is China's position.

I think most of us have read that China is eagerly building 30,000 miles of interstate type expressways, (in league with the USA, which has 46,000 miles) but how many realize the extent of China's massive airport expansion program?

Check this out:
[urlhttp://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-03/25/content_6563240.htm][/url]

A few snippets. At the end of 2006, Chinas had 147 airports. The number will grow to 244 by 2020.

And, while U.S. airline traffic has grown modestly over the past decade, and some years even decreasing, China expects passenger traffic to grow 11.4% a year and package traffic to grow 14% per year. So, we can anticipate a lot of thirsty planes, just in China, adding to the world demand no matter how much in the way of conservation efforts or just plain recession effects occur in the west.

China is not the only growth economy which will be competing for every drop of oil. Add such other populous places as India and Brazil to this demand equation. Likely all of which will see double digit percentage increases for years to come in the thirsty category of cars on the road and planes in the air.

Scary for most of us in the west!

The blame lies with America and the West in the vigour with which they pursued the expansion of American style consumerism and free marketeering into these places during the Cold War. There has been much blood spilt and resources wasted in getting us to this juncture where we now are increasingly fearful, and quite rightly so, at the prospect of these places taking on Western levels of resource usage. However, we shan't change unless we recognise just how this whole sorry spectacle started and why it started, how we got to be where we are and why. It was Nixon's trip to China that lassooed them into the waste of Americanism. It was the war in socialist Afghanisan that tore down the Iron curtain of socialist levels of resource usage which were but a mere fraction of what occurs today. America and the West vigorously pushed for open markets and the WTO.

This madness has to stop and those who peddled these crackpot ideas discredited. Thats the only way that we can make a start on turning the world round to living more sustainably. To a large extent, the ideas of individualism and free choice are the problem along with the freedom to follow religions and their crazy ideas on breeding and families. A lot of this was pushed by America as an antidote to godless communism.

The problem however is that there is no antidote to a dying planet and we will have to revise the way we think soon.Or else, we will be rendered extinct. At the base of all of this is the West's obsession with consuming as if it were going out of fashion.

[vaseline2008]

Hey no problem! Everyone can just go get a Chevy Volt and all our problems will be solved!

I'm gonna hold out for the Fisker Karma