[Crazy_Dad]

I've just done the numbers on what I earn. Without budgeting for entertainment, medical, savings, car maint, kids outings/presents, school fees, gardening supplies and all the rest I am coming up 11 bucks a week short on the basics.

2k in the red on credit for all the things that crop up daily that need fixing - i.e. wife slipped a disc in her back a month ago...

Basics = modest house within striking distance of where I work(renting). Food for cooking with from scratch for 5. electricity, gas, water, petrol, health insurance. Kids sharing a bedroom.

I live in Perth Australia and am questioning why I bother anymore. And I'm lucky enough to have a job. Any suggestions on where I could move to? - New Zealand perhaps?

[americandream]

It's just as expensive over here if not more so. We've kiwis flying the coop for Oz. Do your homework if you decide to cross the ditch.

[Hawkcreek]

Come to America and I will let you and your family live in a cabin on my property in exchange for labor in the garden. But only if you have an cool Aussie accent and know how to brew good beer.

[SeaGypsy]

Funny, Lord of the Rings was the best and worst thing to ever happen to NZ, tripling tourism and house prices shortly therafter.

Hey CD, if you google rosco's mining jobs, he's a Perth local specialising in getting people started in mining. Very nice guy, very helpfull. I go back to Oz next week, to a $300 a day job in the Yasi repair area. My total household expenditure keeping my family in the Philippines is less than that per week. That is including my beer budget. So each week I work I am nearly $1k ahead. With half time off, I usually get several thousand $ back at tax time. As I have been saying here for as long as I have been here, it is important to think outside the box if you want to have any degree of freedom. Otherwise you are being farmed.

[Xenophobe]

I've just done the numbers on what I earn. Without budgeting for entertainment, medical, savings, car maint, kids outings/presents, school fees, gardening supplies and all the rest I am coming up 11 bucks a week short on the basics.

2k in the red on credit for all the things that crop up daily that need fixing - i.e. wife slipped a disc in her back a month ago...

Basics = modest house within striking distance of where I work(renting). Food for cooking with from scratch for 5. electricity, gas, water, petrol, health insurance. Kids sharing a bedroom.

I live in Perth Australia and am questioning why I bother anymore. And I'm lucky enough to have a job. Any suggestions on where I could move to? - New Zealand perhaps?

What makes you think moving solves the issue, unless it's onto an Amish commune?

[papa moose]

CD just a few rapid ideas

There was a spread in either the West or Sunday Times last year about pensioners living in Bali. Perhaps u could relocate there, maybe rent a room in Perth and keep your current job, fly back to see family on weekends?
You work IT right? have you considered applying for FIFO IT jobs? It's a shit lifestyle and against you views i know but if your desperate for work.
Even combine the two options? Move family to Bali and work a IT job FIFO via Perth?

Your comment about moving to NZ implies you are open to the idea of up rooting your whole family, is this wishful thinking or something you have actually discussed with your wife/kids?

I don't think going native in asia, like Seagypsy, would be a good idea (he married into the local community) unless you already have some connections over there.

Are you willing to give your career away to stay in Perth? Do you have links to NZ? I don't think moving there would do much good, the two countries are so similiar.

Mate you I hear and feel your pain, i am in a very similiar boat to you, we are just getting by at the moment.

[papa moose]

What makes you think moving solves the issue, unless it's onto an Amish commune?

Perth is a very expensive place to live is where this thought comes from.
Land values are over inflated by restricted supply of new land, excessively cashed up mining types and the general ongoing Australian real estate bubble ("There is no bubble!"). This all trickles down to rents, both because rents reflect the ROI that the landlord wants and also can then be pushed further upwards by the demand created by shortage of supply.

West Australia (where CD is from) is often described as having a two speed economy, this refers to the massive amount of money being thrown around by the oil/gas/mining industries vs. anyone else who can't ride that industries coat tails.

I think CD's thought process is that if he can get a job in another location that pays similiar to what he is earning now and gives him a cheaper lifestyle then he will have improved his situation.
As i said in my earlier post NZ and Oz are very similiar so getting a comparable job and lifestyle probably wouldn't be too hard but IMO there would not be much of a cash saving (plus cost of the move).
SE Asia gives a much cheaper lifestyle if you go semi/native but culture shock and lost earning potential might out weigh this.
Perhaps rather than leaving WA just leave Perth, cheap houses/land out in the wheatbelt, not a lot of job ops in IT tho, not sure what cost of living is like.

[SeaGypsy]

It is a heck of a lot easier than people assume. Despite being entitled to residency in the Philippines I prefer for tax purposes to remain a tourist. I have many friends here who have lived here over 20 years as tourists, flying out every 18 months being the only mandatory exit. $25 a month tourist visa fee.
$100 a month rent for a reasonable house. $2000 tricycle being 'standard family transport'.
I am biased towards the Philippines by virtue of being married here, but objectively there are very good reasons this place is chosen by so many American, Australian and European expats.

The Law is in English. (unlike Bali or the rest of Indo, Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia)
Most people speak basic English, it is easy to go shopping here.
There is a generally very positive attitude towards foreigners here, it's very friendly.
Laisse Faire is the mode of business, it's very free.
Crime rates outside the major cities are very low, it is safe to walk the streets at any hour in most areas.
As an Aussie it's a cheap quick flight away.

I would recommend any family stuck in a financial rut in Australia go have a look at Asia. It's an invigorating time to be here; times are changing rapidly and SE Asia is humming while much of the world splutters and chokes.

[SeaGypsy]

Papa M, I would disagree with your statements on FIFO sucking as a lifestyle and lost earning potential.
Currently a return ticket from Perth or Darwin to SE Asian hubs can be had for under $500AUD.
I know loads of guys working FIFO in Merchant Navy and oil/ gas/ mining. Most work a month on month off and gross upwards of $150k. These wage levels are attainable within 4 years in these industries.
When living here I am always meeting people with high wages working all over SE Asia. The job I just landed is through an FIFO friend here. The trend of part time expatry is spreading rapidly in the mining and shipping sectors.

[papa moose]

Papa M, I would disagree with your statements on FIFO sucking as a lifestyle and lost earning potential.
Currently a return ticket from Perth or Darwin to SE Asian hubs can be had for under $500AUD.
I know loads of guys working FIFO in Merchant Navy and oil/ gas/ mining. Most work a month on month off and gross upwards of $150k. These wage levels are attainable within 4 years in these industries.
When living here I am always meeting people with high wages working all over SE Asia. The job I just landed is through an FIFO friend here. The trend of part time expatry is spreading rapidly in the mining and shipping sectors.

Excuse me? "lost earning potential" that's the opposite of what i was saying, FIFO's only upside is the good earning potential.
As for the "sucky lifestyle", well that's a matter of opinion, i know your still doing it but i have swapped over to the other FIFO (Fit In or Fuck Off), it is definitely harder to balance the budget without the money i used to bring in from NWS but life aint about money is it SG?

I read a lot of your posts and know that you aim for a 50/50 balance with being at home. I spent 10 years sleeping in donga's more often than my own bed, when i proposed she said if we are having a relationship we need to be together not living seperate lives, i agreed with her (i still do and after 10 years in con camps i was keen to quit anyway) so gave the game away. Admittedly i have been able to stay in the industry with a good wage.

I occassionally regretted giving the FIFO away for years but once my kids were born... my daughter is 3 years and my son is almost 1 year old, i can't imagine not being there every day to watch them develop, each day there is a new "first".

I can't imagine not wanting to be around them everyday, most of the guys i work with don't see things the same way admittedly, but then bear in mind that the FIFO industries have the highest rates of divorce in Oz and are pretty high up the suicide rankings and alcoholism too.
Plenty of guys that work FIFO end up retiring broke, broken and lonely.
My first job i was 19 on a goldmine, i looked around at the old guys propping up the bar and swore to myself i would never end up that way, that is still my ambition.

/end rant.
As a last point what i've just said is from an emotional stand point, i also have reservations towards FIFO due to the economic stress it induces at both locations.


PS, of course PO collapse could kill us all tomorrow so making all this a moot point

[SeaGypsy]

SE Asia gives a much cheaper lifestyle if you go semi/native but culture shock and lost earning potential might out weigh this.
.

I didn't think I misread this PapaM?

Anyhow, I agree fully with what you say about Perth, the same is becoming true in every well serviced area where jobs are available. On the FIFO thing, for some reason younger guys are less into negotiating terms. I think you are talking about doing 2 weeks on one off or 20 and ten? I know this is the norm for starting contracts, but pretty much everyone I know in the formentioned sectors can determine their own contracts. Most of them get flown home to Asia free as well, because it's no different in cost to flying back tho the East Coast.

[FairMaiden]

I don't know a lot about Australia so I can't offer any fantastic suggestions. Maybe you could get the kids out doing paper routes or babysitting?

Hubby and I have a video business that we do in our spare time (on top of 2 FT jobs). We have been doing it for 5 years and could probably stop now. But we certainly would have been hit hard this year if we hadn't do it...20% increases in practically ever budget item...

Hope that you find a solution soon.

[SeaGypsy]

One big problem in Australia is that it has become litigious and highly legalistic. Insurance demands in any kind of business are extrordinary. Most states require $10 million in public liability insurance alone to run any kind of physical business. The black market in Australia is mostly confined to illegal drugs, perhaps hotel/hosteliery is the only other significant black money earner. Try and set up a lemonaide stall for the kiddies in most towns in Australia you would be serviced a 'Cease and Desist' order prompto Monday morning.

[papa moose]

SE Asia gives a much cheaper lifestyle if you go semi/native but culture shock and lost earning potential might out weigh this.
.

I didn't think I misread this PapaM?

Anyhow, I agree fully with what you say about Perth, the same is becoming true in every well serviced area where jobs are available. On the FIFO thing, for some reason younger guys are less into negotiating terms. I think you are talking about doing 2 weeks on one off or 20 and ten? I know this is the norm for starting contracts, but pretty much everyone I know in the formentioned sectors can determine their own contracts. Most of them get flown home to Asia free as well, because it's no different in cost to flying back tho the East Coast.

Gotta hate hitting the wrong button when 1/2 way thru typing a response!!!!

Okay re the first point, i meant "lost earning potential" if he went fully native, living AND working in SEAsia, not FIFO or expat status.
Also i my own defense i multi tasking about 4 things as well as supposedly working so i reserve the right to misinterpret everything everybody says. I also used the word "might" in my OP, i readily admit to not being an expert.

Re your second point; young guys have less options thereby less negotiating power, if u are skilled, experienced and in demand it is much easier to make demands. Also just making this up as i type but young people might have a world view of "this is just the way things always have been" so are less likely to think to ask for more, old timers will have experienced change over the years and therefore are aware that if they ask for an imporvement it might actually happen. Sorry, can't be bothered proof reading today, hope there are not too many typos or logic gaps.

Your comment re rosters and "starting contracts" well i think maybe the disconnect is that you seem more connected to offshore oil & gas, my experience has been only onshore mining and construction in WA and a bit in QLD.
When i started 6weeks/1week was the norm, i have done 8weeks/1week, my last big project i was doing 5weeks/1week, the project im on at the moment field crew is working 26days/9days.
The shortest roster i ever heard of is 9days/5days, but the complaints i heard was that it is too unsettling, admittedly people will never not complain.
Having said all that, 10years ago a mate's old man was doing 1month on/off on a woodside platform and making good money for only working half a year, i once worked with a well services crew who were paid a very good salary and got to sit at home doing there own thing if there was no work, add to that a nice day rate bonus when they were offshore...

I probably could have made a lot more $ in the time i did FIFO with a bit of 20/20 hind sight but at the end of the day i had fun, bought a house, paid off the mortgage and saw it's paper value double by the time i sold it 5 years later. At 15% growth in RE i should have stayed home and played the "developer" Ponzi scheme , GFC might have muted growth rates the last few years but Perth property certainly hasn't lost value.

[papa moose]

One big problem in Australia is that it has become litigious and highly legalistic. Insurance demands in any kind of business are extrordinary. Most states require $10 million in public liability insurance alone to run any kind of physical business. The black market in Australia is mostly confined to illegal drugs, perhaps hotel/hosteliery is the only other significant black money earner. Try and set up a lemonaide stall for the kiddies in most towns in Australia you would be serviced a 'Cease and Desist' order prompto Monday morning.

What do you mean by hotels being black money earners? <- not arguing the point just trying to understand it better.

Years back friends of mine briefly got involved with undeclared tobacco being grown in SA and trucked to WA.
Also a few years ago a good mate of mine was a partner in a kitchen making company, so much undeclared income that they were a) struggling to spend it, b) doing so badly on paper that the company was unsellable. Plenty of "cashies" going on under the table despite Little Johnnie's GST.
Admittedly from the way you describe your neck of the woods Australia porbably does seem comparable to USA's suing culture.

[SeaGypsy]

I have 3 small businesses registered in the Philippines, each cost less than $50 in red tape.

I was talking about holiday rental 'scams' where you go to a place with high tourism and rent a place as a long termer then jam it full of backpackers. Or you build a few tiny rooms on a balconey and rent them out, that kind of thing. A lot of people do this in Darwin, Cairns, Airley Beach, Noosa, Gold Coast, Inner Sydney, Melbourne and Fremantle.

[Crazy_Dad]

Funny, Lord of the Rings was the best and worst thing to ever happen to NZ, tripling tourism and house prices shortly therafter.

Hey CD, if you google rosco's mining jobs, he's a Perth local specialising in getting people started in mining. Very nice guy, very helpfull. I go back to Oz next week, to a $300 a day job in the Yasi repair area.

I'll look him up, can't hurt to see what he says. Thanks SG. I doubt IT skills are much in demand. I've painted myself into a corner - I can't afford to retrain either.

Thanks to all the other posters as well. I am currently looking for ways to make money after I finish my full time job and on weekends.
The kids are too young to help out in any way, like paper rounds.
The wife works, but she does it to get out of the house, as there is no money in it after daycare and other work costs.

I'm pretty much on the verge of starting up the car and parking it in the main intersection of the city and waiting for the police/media to come and kick the shit out of me. I could turn to charity orgs I guess, but that hurts to even think about. We used to have a country where everyone if they worked had a "Fair Go". This is no longer the case.

The growth lobby and corrupt government are engineering the situation to line their own pockets.
Cashed up expats are just swamping the little guy here feeding the corrupt growth lobby with cash.
That's why I'm thinking of moving. It will mean leaving two of my kids behind which also hurts to think about.

We need some Egypt style riots. It is just a matter of time. I can't be the only one.

[papa moose]

Okay, i was having a mental block trying to work out how a pub would be part of the black economy, duh.

Seen shocking stories of "slum lords" in inner Sydney "renovating" two bedroom appartments to house 20+ people.
ACA rode that ratings bonanza for a week or two.

[Crazy_Dad]

Come to America and I will let you and your family live in a cabin on my property in exchange for labor in the garden. But only if you have an cool Aussie accent and know how to brew good beer.

Thanks for the offer I have the accent, but I doubt I can swim that far. I used to brew beer, will be starting it again soon.

[papa moose]

We need some Egypt style riots. It is just a matter of time. I can't be the only one.

What are we rioting to get? The Egyptians rioted in the hope of getting "free and fair" democratic representation.
We already have "free and fair" democratic representation, personally i agree with you that it blows, but what is it that you are forwarding as an alternative?
I'm willing to bet if you park in any Perth intersection and offer to hold hands and sing koombyah you won't get beaten by the cops or media, you'll get run over by a semi long before the cops arrive.

Don't mean to be down on you, you sound depressed enough, good luck.