[Sixstrings]

"The fight started when the couple realized that they had no maple syrup for their pancakes. They asked the table over if they could have some of theirs because their pancakes wouldn't taste the same without the maple syrup and one of the two girls response was "bitch, your pancakes look fine to me!" And from there, all hell broke loose."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxeZvUKpFbM

First of all, this didn't even happen in a Red State -- it's a Denny's in Chicopee, Massachusetts. The video is pretty bizarre, a Jerry Springer script verbatim.

The interesting thing is how the rest of the diners react. Looks like most of them stop eating as the fight progresses, they just fold their hands and look down at their own pancakes waiting for someone in authority to get a handle on the situation. Now what I would do in this situation is promptly get the hell out of that restaurant. But if you're going to stick around, you'd think *someone* would step in to diffuse the situation, or at least shout out a "hey, take it outside" or *something*.

But nope, everyone sits quietly like deer in headlights. The fight finally calms down but then starts up again and at that point the crowd starts hooping and hollering like it's a show.

Bizarre. So the question is.. is our society devolving? Would this have happened in the 1950's? Or even the 70's or 80's.. seems to me we now live in communities where nobody knows each other, nobody wants to get involved, everybody has their face either in pancakes or a an iPhone with no attachment to what's going on around them.

[Ludi]

I never encounter mean people when I go into town. Maybe society is breaking down in some places but it doesn't seem to be doing it in my locale.

Denny's used to be Sambo's, for those too young to remember. There's a history of America there, for sure.

[PrestonSturges]

In Waffle House, the fry cook would have shivved them with a blade that he ground down from a from a plastic soup ladle.

[Outcast_Searcher]

The interesting thing is how the rest of the diners react. Looks like most of them stop eating as the fight progresses, they just fold their hands and look down at their own pancakes waiting for someone in authority to get a handle on the situation. Now what I would do in this situation is promptly get the hell out of that restaurant. But if you're going to stick around, you'd think *someone* would step in to diffuse the situation, or at least shout out a "hey, take it outside" or *something*.

But nope, everyone sits quietly like deer in headlights.

Well, this is an example of the breakdown of law, the courts, and common sense in our society.

Today, if anyone tried to intervene, IMO, they would be in REAL danger of getting smacked in the face, knifed, or possibly even shot. Or, if they actually tried to physicially do something, like say pull a bigger guy away from a smaller guy who was getting hurt, they could easily get sued for their efforts as well.

When I was a Boy Scout 35ish years ago, I was taught to effectively render basic first aid and help people in a situation like a car crash, a fall, etc.

Today, sadly I just call the authorities if I see a problem, as again, lawsuits are far too risky an issue if one intervenes -- or even the risk of an overzealous D/A trying to prosecute you if you accidentally hurt someone who is, say bleeding to death or can't breathe.

The courts, common decency, societal expectations of self control, of being "decent" to fellow citizens, of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY -- have all badly broken down. Once folks realize this, whether by wanting to take advantage of it or to protect themselves -- the problem just degenerates -- probably exponentially (time will tell).

What's the answer? I'm not sure, but I know one thing -- even though I'm no fan of organized religion, and especially the organized RELIGIOUS folks who try to force their views on others -- the teaching of decency, of compassion, and of respnsibility that the church taught kids was a MAJOR plus that we're now generally VERY sadly lacking as a society.

And the idea that "the authorities/government" will take care of everything is totally laughable, so don't bother going there. The reason that the joke that if you are in trouble you should order a pizza instead of calling the police if you want someone there in 30 minutes is funny -- is that it is often true.

[Outcast_Searcher]

I never encounter mean people when I go into town. Maybe society is breaking down in some places but it doesn't seem to be doing it in my locale.

Ludi, your general attitude that the answer to pretty much everything related to poverty has NOTHING to do with personal responsibility and EVERYTHING to do with wealth redistrubition (no apparent willingness to compromise, no willingness to define how much government is enough), and how common your attitude has grown IS A HUGE sign of society breaking down.

The fact that you are either oblivious to that or refuse to face that reality because it isn't in your self-interest only makes it worse.

That whole approach reminds me of Chevy Chase in the country club in "Fletch" when he resolves the tip issue by telling two club servers: "Give each other 20 dollars" and beats a hasty retreat while they slowly figure it out.

[Plantagenet]

What's the answer? I'm not sure, but I know one thing -- even though I'm no fan of organized religion, and especially the organized RELIGIOUS folks who try to force their views on others -- the teaching of decency, of compassion, and of respnsibility that the church taught kids was a MAJOR plus that we're now generally VERY sadly lacking as a society.

Exactly right. Even the poorest societies with strong religious traditions in the deep south of the USA, and in Africa, South America, Asia and the Pacific don't have a lot of crime and senseless violence. But remove the teaching of morality that comes through religious indoctrination, and you've got the makings of a criminal and violent society.

[ian807]

Oh brave new world, it's the drugged "viewer' society all grown up.

Consider the daily experience of the standard-issue Denny's diner (at least in my neighborhood). Cheap fatty food. Lots of TV and internet games. Copious amounts of alcohol, tobacco, pot, antidepressants seasoned with the occasional bit of crack. All anxieties soothed. All pains, muted.

For them, this is Jerry Springer. They don't know or care about these people in front of them. It's just another show. It's how they've been conditioned. Nobody's telling them what to do so they do nothing. Most only go "baaaah" when Fox news tells them to. They have been made into sheep, recently sheared.

[PrestonSturges]

What's the answer? I'm not sure, but I know one thing -- even though I'm no fan of organized religion, and especially the organized RELIGIOUS folks who try to force their views on others -- the teaching of decency, of compassion, and of respnsibility that the church taught kids was a MAJOR plus that we're now generally VERY sadly lacking as a society.

Exactly right. Even the poorest societies with strong religious traditions in the deep south of the USA, and in Africa, South America, Asia and the Pacific don't have a lot of crime and senseless violence. But remove the teaching of morality that comes through religious indoctrination, and you've got the makings of a criminal and violent society.

I'll take a break from ignoring you to point that the murder, suicide, vehicular homicide, rape, meth use, divorce and child molesting rates are much much much higher in the southern Bible Belt than in the godless secular north. Once you get outside the densest resort areas, much of the south would have a lot higher population except for the endless cycles of local violence. People kill each other, everyone knows it, and the cops just can't be bothered unless you shoot someone on the courthouse steps at noon on a weekday.

[Ludi]

I'll take a break from ignoring you to point that the murder, suicide, vehicular homicide, rape, meth use, divorce and child molesting rates are much much much higher in the southern Bible Belt than in the godless secular north.

High crime rates tend to coincide with social/economic inequality. We can expect higher rates of crime, mental illness, physical illness, etc as economic inequality increases in the US.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/2 ... _Tennessee

[PrestonSturges]

I'll take a break from ignoring you to point that the murder, suicide, vehicular homicide, rape, meth use, divorce and child molesting rates are much much much higher in the southern Bible Belt than in the godless secular north.

High crime rates tend to coincide with social/economic inequality. We can expect higher rates of crime, mental illness, physical illness, etc as economic inequality increases in the US.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/2 ... _Tennessee

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I'm still disagreeing with Plant's poor grasp of cause and effect.

[Ludi]

I'm not disagreeing with that, but I'm still disagreeing with Plant's poor grasp of cause and effect.

I know, I'm responding to you and not Planty because I generally don't read his posts except when someone else quotes him.

Religiousity doesn't seem to be able to overcome social/economic inequality in the US. The US is one of the most religious nations on the planet, also one of the most unequal. Which is odd considering a lot of people think the US is a "Christian nation" and Christianity is all about sharing with those less well off than ourselves.

[Pretorian]

What's the answer? I'm not sure, but I know one thing -- even though I'm no fan of organized religion, and especially the organized RELIGIOUS folks who try to force their views on others -- the teaching of decency, of compassion, and of respnsibility that the church taught kids was a MAJOR plus that we're now generally VERY sadly lacking as a society.

Exactly right. Even the poorest societies with strong religious traditions in the deep south of the USA, and in Africa, South America, Asia and the Pacific don't have a lot of crime and senseless violence. But remove the teaching of morality that comes through religious indoctrination, and you've got the makings of a criminal and violent society.

So you ok with rubbing a looot of bullshit in kids so they behave in the way you like the most? Gosh , your parents must have left you a LOOOT of monies

[Pretorian]

The interesting thing is how the rest of the diners react. Looks like most of them stop eating as the fight progresses, they just fold their hands and look down at their own pancakes waiting for someone in authority to get a handle on the situation. Now what I would do in this situation is promptly get the hell out of that restaurant. But if you're going to stick around, you'd think *someone* would step in to diffuse the situation, or at least shout out a "hey, take it outside" or *something*.

But nope, everyone sits quietly like deer in headlights.

Well, this is an example of the breakdown of law, the courts, and common sense in our society.

Today, if anyone tried to intervene, IMO, they would be in REAL danger of getting smacked in the face, knifed, or possibly even shot. Or, if they actually tried to physicially do something, like say pull a bigger guy away from a smaller guy who was getting hurt, they could easily get sued for their efforts as well.

they would become officially racist as well, in this case anyway.

[crude_intentions]

First of all, this didn't even happen in a Red State

Sigh.. Being from the south i'll admit we are a bunch of backwards acting hicks but for the most part we are polite backwards acting hicks.

The interesting thing is how the rest of the diners react. Looks like most of them stop eating as the fight progresses, they just fold their hands and look down at their own pancakes waiting for someone in authority to get a handle on the situation.

Because thats what they've been trained to do wait on someone with authority to do something about it. At present you have 3 generation of Americans that if the TSHTF they would'nt know to do anything but sit around chanting "help help help".

[Lore]

But remove the teaching of morality that comes through religious indoctrination, and you've got the makings of a criminal and violent society.

I wonder what went wrong with the Islamic fundamental terrorists?

[Sixstrings]

Today, sadly I just call the authorities if I see a problem, as again, lawsuits are far too risky an issue if one intervenes -- or even the risk of an overzealous D/A trying to prosecute you if you accidentally hurt someone who is, say bleeding to death or can't breathe.

Yup, I do the same thing, don't get involved. What's weird about that video is that nobody did what I would have -- get up and get away from it. There's an overall survival lesson here, and I've experienced it a few times throughout my life. Most people get immobilized when TSHTF suddenly around them. But from a survival perspective, you need to be able to quickly recognize a potentially dangerous situation and either get yourself away from it or act.

What's the answer? I'm not sure, but I know one thing -- even though I'm no fan of organized religion, and especially the organized RELIGIOUS folks who try to force their views on others -- the teaching of decency, of compassion, and of respnsibility that the church taught kids was a MAJOR plus that we're now generally VERY sadly lacking as a society.

And that's the crux of the problem. Without God, a consumerist / capitalist society is sick. As an agnostic I don't come to that conclusion lightly. The problem we have is that if money and materialism is all we value, then those in the lower percentiles of the income distribution are bound to be amoral and hollow. Some kind of faith is the only thing that can fill the void that empty promises of consumer addiction fail too.

If you think about it, the one fundamental thing that's changed the most over the last fifty years is the loss of traditional Christian faith. Even much of today's churches are very different from what Christianity used to be -- it's all megachurches, "prosperity gospel" and feel good affirmative stuff like Joel Osteen. Sermons dwell on marriage issues, money, and nebulous feelings about God -- very little moral ministry there anymore.

Another problem is the overall breakdown in simple manners and decorum. Families don't eat together anymore, rather they shovel food into their mouths in separate rooms in front of separate screens. And internet culture has spilled over into the real world.. with all its trolls, bile, sarcasm, super inflated egos and flame wars.

Lastly, the latter generations were probably coddled too much, with so much emphasis placed on "self esteem" that esteem for others was forgotten about. Ideally, self esteem should at least have some connection to other people holding you in esteem -- which is earned, not unconditional.

[Sixstrings]

In other breakdown of society news.. 400 pound woman beats up her roommate for eating her Thin Mint cookies:

A Florida woman allegedly went ballistic on her roommate because she believed the woman had gobbled her Girl Scout cookies.

Hersha Howard was arrested Sunday after a battle royale that ravaged the entire apartment, according to police.

The 31-year-old Naples resident allegedly first attacked Jasmin Wanke around 1 a.m. while she was sleeping – launching an angry rant about missing Thin Mints, Wanke told authorities.

The chocolate-coated mint wafers are one of the most popular of the Girl Scout varieties, and are only available once a year.

The two argued about the cookies, then Wanke claims Howard – who according to the police report weighs 400 pounds – jumped on her and hit her in the face. They fought until Wanke's husband pulled them apart.

Howard then allegedly chased after Wanke with a pair of scissors, police were told. Howard ditched the cutting implements, however, and instead picked up a board and whacked Wanke.

The fight moved into the kitchen, where Howard allegedly hurled her heft at Wanke again. As they fought, Howard bit Wanke's breast and struck her several times.

Wanke's husband once against separated the pair, and kept Howard restrained until cops arrived, police said.

Howard was charged with aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/02/22/2011-02-22_florida_woman_busted_for_assaulting_roommate_over_girl_scout_cookies.html

[Pretorian]

Hmm, how come that I knew that that woman is black?
I once had a 43-year old black woman as a coworker. Polite, modest, smiles, all that. So, once we had a small party and I ate (by accident) her slice of pizza. To say that she was histerical, or beside of herself , it is to say nothing. I was literally looking at her saliva dripping fangs and thinking what kind of germs they might have according to statistics in my city and what do I do if she will start biting. I kid you not.
Later that day , another coworker takes me aside and says, "Pretorian, are you a fucking idiot? NEVER EAT BLACKMAN's FOOD!!"

[Kristen]

If I were present during such an episode, I would have stepped in and helped. My boyfriend is adamant that I carry a 22 at all times (In Minnesota, surprisingly it is allowed unless a business says otherwise) and it is useful in these cases. Even unarmed I would do something! As a bar keeper, I am use to dealing with drunk patrons breaking out in fights. People just can't seem to contain emotional outbursts.

[vision-master]

(In Minnesota, surprisingly it is allowed unless a business says otherwise)

Even then, I think the only places you can't carry are in Government buildings, otherwise owners of businesses have NO right banning guns. Yes, I'm from Mn.