[evgeny]

One of the myths of the twentieth century was the myth that the United States there is indeed a powerful and, most importantly, efficient army (land forces), which corresponds to great-power status.

Strictly speaking, this is not surprising, because the history of the U.S. and its army rests on myths from the very beginning of their occurrence.

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[dsula]

One of the myths of the twentieth century was the myth that the United States there is indeed a powerful and, most importantly, efficient army (land forces), which corresponds to great-power status.

It is a powerful army, but poltical correctness and general liberal BS make it weak, almost useless. The US army would has the capability to completely clean ME out, and resettle the area with mexicans, that power will never be used.

[NoWorries]

The US military today is not that powerful, IF you're talking about conventional war forces, and if you're looking at historical comparisons (eg--Germany in 1930s, Britain in the 1800s, USA in 1950s, etc.).

Leaving fighting doctrines aside (ie--the debacle that was Vietnam) the US has relatively small force numbers when compared with, say, Russia, or China.

Besides, they're spread too thin; way too many outposts.

[obixman]

The US Army has since the second world war adopted the posture of a small force but with extremely high tech. As an example - the artillery (and by expansion our rocket forces) have alsway been amongst the best int he world since the 1780's. The combined arms battle the US - and ONLY the US has trained for - would stun almost every other army. The Iraqi's were well trained in the Soviet techniques and they were - well -embarassing - to their trainers.

The other thing that has been the case since WWII is that we train our soldiers in the best way possible - we actually use our weapons and use the actual equipment in training - enough to where we wear out and replace our vehicles - no one else except Britian comes close.


Having said that, the US, like most other armies, fields a terrible officer corps when war starts - those skills which make an excellent warrior/leader are generally a hinderance or create problems in the peacetime army. That being said we are/have been winnowing out our offricers/ non-coms now in two wars.

Man for man - right now, my bets would be on the US army.

[evgeny]

Man for man - right now, my bets would be on the US army.

In subsequent years, the largest American military operation was their invasion of the island nation of Grenada in 1983 to overthrow the local extreme left of the regime.

As always, after the next war, the Americans gave the world the information sphere his version of what happened, as always fairly understated number of its losses. But if the number of Korean Americans have understated its losses by 5-6 times, then to Grenada, they decided not to be penny wise and have underestimated the true number of their killed about a hundred times, claiming 30 dead.

This typical American military lies lasted quite a long time because it was not to expose the then Soviet leadership, based on the principles enshrined in the narrow circle of the then Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko: "Do not anger the Americans over trifles." Adherence to this principle in the Brezhnev era has brought the Soviet Union is very far away, straight into the "new thinking" of Gorbachev and then in the foreign policy of the Russian Federation of 90-ies. 20-th century.

But nevertheless, gradually began to fish out a variety of very picturesque details of the American assault on Grenada, which allowed to restore the true picture of what happened and establish a fairly precise number of American casualties in manpower and technology.

First of all, it was found that during the landing was shot down about a hundred of transport helicopters. And almost all of downed helicopters were on board from 15 to 30 people and 3-5 crew members. Thus, even if not all downed helicopter were killed, and even then only on the number of dead downed helicopter was supposed to be about 2 thousand.

It is known that in ten downed helicopter in Grenada in full force died before he could join the battle, a group of special forces "Delta" in the amount of two hundred people.

Group Delta-called elite U.S. Special Forces. But the history of its existence, this group is so never been able to engage the real enemy. Soon after its establishment in 1980, she lost 40% of its members during an unsuccessful attempt to free American hostages, diplomats in Iran. Three years later, in Grenada, a group of Delta lost completely. In survived staff and support staff that do not leave the U.S..

The most interesting thing that all American helicopters and planes were shot down in Grenada Soviet weapons during the Second World War: heavy machine guns DShK sample 1938 and 37-mm automatic anti-aircraft guns, "61-K" Although the sample in 1939 were also used in small quantities in 1957 -mm automatic anti-aircraft gun S-60 "mod. 1951

Within two weeks of fighting in Grenada, the Americans lost the same number of helicopters, as Soviet troops - for the first six years of war in Afghanistan.

Such heavy losses in men (3,000 killed) and Technology (100 vehicles and 20 combat helicopters, 10 combat aircraft) were caused by the fact that 30-thousand grouping of U.S. forces faced with some thousands of Cubans who have come together around 3 thousand soldiers and officers Grenada army and police, who wished to fight, and armed party activists. In this case, of two hundred Cubans were officers (army, police, security services), training grenadtsev of relevant security agencies. The remaining 800 Cubans - civilians builders, upgraded Grenada International Airport and previously served in the army.

While the majority of Cuban military advisers, organized and led the resistance of those parts of the army and police, who wished to fight, Cuban workers, picking up discarded most of the Grenada Army small arms and heavy machine guns DShK, 37-mm anti-aircraft guns, "61-K" mortars and recoilless rifles, gave the invasion forces organized resistance. At first, they shot straight into the air several hundred Parachute soldiers of the 82 nd Airborne Division, then was shot down dozens of vehicles and combat helicopters and several ground-attack planes from aircraft carriers. Despite overwhelming superiority in firepower and manpower, the Americans could not break the resistance of Cubans to until they ran out of ammunition.

After destroying a few days of fighting around the airport about 2 thousand Americans, Cubans during this period, according to themselves as Americans, have lost in killed 50 people.

This loss ratio indicates that in 1983 the American officers also were not able to control artillery fire and airstrikes, as well as during the First and Second World Wars. In addition, it says the cowardice of American pilots who, after losing several aircraft from antiaircraft fire struck the rocket and bomb attacks, without entering the zone of reach of antiaircraft guns, that is, from a height of about 5 km. And because up until now, despite all the technological improvements, rocket and bombing from a height of 3 km is unsighted, the American soldiers for ground troops and hundreds of their lives paying for the incompetence of their officers, gunners and avianavodchikov for cowardice and pilots.

Arithmetic here is simple. If the American pilots of attack aircraft are not cowards, and applied to strikes are not a 5-km altitude, and from a height of 500-1500 meters, then they would have lost approximately 25 aircraft and about 20 of their lives, killed least 200 Cubans, and others would be injured and thus the price 20 of their lives would have saved the lives of about a thousand of their infantry.

[evgeny]

Any lessons from its regular mistakes and defects in the device of indigenous armed forces, identified by fighting in Grenada, the Americans, of course, not removed - due to total absence in Anglo-Saxon character of the propensity to self-criticism. And so after 6 years - in 1989 in Panama - again came on the same rake. Although during the war with Panamanians appeared and something new - for example, the excessive number of cases of fire on his own, which the Americans were "gently" called "friendly fire" and that after Panama became a strong tradition of the American army during the fighting.

But because Americans are too directly understand the principle of "everybody loves a winner," after his controversial victory in Grenada and in Panama they are no measures to address the underlying flaws of its armed forces were not taken. Instead - once again: "The usual arrogance of Americans, this win lifted to unprecedented heights, continues to hold at a level that does not correspond to the results achieved. Neither turns out unprepared troops, nor the slow pace of military action - nothing can quench the appetites of the flared." These reports prompt the Russian consul in New York VA Teplova from 04.06.1898 of the first results of the Spanish-American War, vividly characterized the situation in the U.S. that has developed after 1992, in 1990, "We finally overcame the Vietnam syndrome" - joyfully shouted the Americans.

[evgeny]

Man for man - right now, my bets would be on the US army.

Technology is good, but with no soldiers willing to sacrifice their lives for the sake of a comrade, in a real fight with real soldiers they will not help. As we can see the example of Grenada's American pilots because of their cowardice was framed by the death of others. Such army can not win the battle against the real wariors.

Here is an example of a Russian soldier.


1 March 2000. 84 Pskov paratroopers 6-th company of the 104 th Regiment of the 76 th Airborne Division were killed in the Argun Gorge in Chechnya. Within days 91 Pskov paratroopers withstood the onslaught of about two thousand chechn fighters . Losses were militants, according to various estimates, from 500 to 700 people. Presidential Decree of 12 March 2000 for their courage and heroism in battle with terrorists, 22 paratroopers were awarded the title Hero of Russia. 21 of them - posthumously, 69 soldiers and officers were awarded the Order of Courage, 63 of them - posthumously.

They could deviate from this battle and skip the terrorists but then the other would have died, they sacrificed their lives to save others. In U.S., this kind of soldiers don't exist

http://rutube.ru/tracks/70192.html

[Sys1]

Regarding USA, the better is the U.S. Army, the worse it will be for Americans as civils unrests will start soon. Regarding man to man fight, I think the comments are quite close from what could came out of a boxe match. It's pure entertainment.
If a World war III occurs, it will be a thermonuclear apocalypse and all the muscles of GI Joe and his wife Britney will be vaporized in the matter of a millisecond.

[Keith_McClary]

Cloudflare

[Keith_McClary]

poltical correctness and general liberal BS

That's just propaganda for US domestic consumption. Here's the real US military.

I was a demolitions technician with the Air Force who was reassigned to work with the CIA’s Air America operation in Laos. We turned in our military IDs cards and uniforms and were issued a State Department ID card and dressed in blue jeans
...
Our team knew when the UN inspectors and international media were scheduled to arrive - we controlled the airfields. We would disappear to our safe houses so we could not be asked questions. It was all a very well planned operation, 60 years ago, involving the military and diplomats out of the US Embassy.
...
In Laos the program I was attached to carried out a systematic assassination of people who were identified as not loyal to U.S. goals. It was called the Phoenix program and eliminated an estimated 60,000 people across Indochina. We did an amazing amount of damage to the civilian infrastructure of the country, and still lost the war. I saw one team of mercenaries I was training show us a bag of ears of dead civilians they had killed. This was how they verified their kills for us.
...
We copied this form of warfare from the Nazis in WWII ... One of the first operations was T.P. Ajax run by Kermit Roosevelt to overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953 to take over their oil fields.
...
I see from the Ray Davis fiasco in Pakistan that our government is still up to its old way of denying to the people of the world what everyone knows is true.

This is what the US does in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The regular uniformed Army guys get their medals for scrubbing toilets and peeling potatoes.

[evgeny]

U.S. soldiers accused of murder "for fun"

A group of American soldiers charged in the killings of civilians in Afghanistan "for fun". The soldiers chose the victim at random. Element of "hunting" was the need to avoid punishment for murder.

It turned out that his plan U.S. soldier was first implemented on January 15 in the Afghan countryside. They killed them got in the way of a civilian to fake an attack on itself: one of the marines threw a grenade and then opened the rest of the imaginary terrorist fire.

In addition to the killings, the soldiers were engaged in dismembering and photographing the dead bodies, as well as collecting the skulls and other bones of their victims. The investigation found that military commanders ignored reports of atrocities committed by his subordinates. According to The Washington Post, the father of one of the soldiers tried to warn the army chiefs of "habit" of the soldiers, but army chiefs did not listen to his story.

As a result of inaction Command from January to May 2010, five soldiers with impunity, committed three murders in the Afghan province of Kandahar. Representatives of the U.S. Army refused to comment on the behavior of American soldiers.

[dorlomin]

First of all, it was found that during the landing was shot down about a hundred of transport helicopters. And almost all of downed helicopters were on board from 15 to 30 people and 3-5 crew members. Thus, even if not all downed helicopter were killed, and even then only on the number of dead downed helicopter was supposed to be about 2 thousand.

Liar. Delusional liar.

[dorlomin]

The US Army has since the second world war adopted the posture of a small force but with extremely high tech.

Official doctrine in the 80s had it able to fight two and a half wars, small? No. Not to mention the huge constription army in the 60s.

As an example - the artillery (and by expansion our rocket forces) have alsway been amongst the best int he world since the 1780's.

That would be very strongly contested as Germany and France had far superior artillary going into WWI, and certainly Germany into WWII and as for rocket forces nope the Soviets had the best field rocket artillary from around 40 till the MRLS came out, though the German LARS was damned good for its time.

The combined arms battle the US - and ONLY the US has trained for

Combined armes has been standard doctrine for all armies since WWII.

The other thing that has been the case since WWII is that we train our soldiers in the best way possible - we actually use our weapons and use the actual equipment in training - enough to where we wear out and replace our vehicles - no one else except Britian comes close.

Again hugely subjective and ok maybe today but in the 80s? Nope loads of European armies were kept pretty sharp, they had mother Russia and its famous raping soldiers on their borders.

[dorlomin]

The US military today is not that powerful, IF you're talking about conventional war forces, and if you're looking at historical comparisons (eg--Germany in 1930s, Britain in the 1800s, USA in 1950s, etc.).

Well the UK was only powerful at Sea after 1816, it was always paranoid about big armies and has only really fielded big armies 4 times in 500 years, the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, the Napoleanic Wars and the two World Wars. Damn good reason there is not a Royal Army and that is to do with the last time the army was politically powerful. Currently the US has a near total dominance over any maneuvre army in the field, more so than anyone in history perhaps. Far too much expensive kit. But the maneuvre army has all to often been resisted successfully by local insurgencies, even with the numbers and brutality of the Soviet scum in the 80s they could not hold Afghanistan, the UK was nearly defeated by the tiny Boer republics in the 1900s and almost every European colonial power was beaten post WWII.

Id say its pretty damned powerful, you are getting your dollars worth, just not needed.

Leaving fighting doctrines aside (ie--the debacle that was Vietnam) the US has relatively small force numbers when compared with, say, Russia, or China.

Besides, they're spread too thin; way too many outposts.

Yes, but its not costing them yet other than deficit spending. The brutal truth is so long as the US has soldiers in Iraq, in a world of dimishing oil reserves, they have their hands round the balls of everyone else.

Churchill was the first politician to truly understand the power of oil but since him every anglophonic political leader has understood where the energy comes from to drive the battleships and consumer cars that make world power.

[dorlomin]

So Evengy how many Afghanis did your dad kill in the 80s and how many germans did your grandad rape in the 40s?

[seahorse3]

evgeny,

You're only problem is you believe any hype about "superior" militaries. War is nothing but loss. There are no heros. Even your beloved Russians have embarrassed themselves in Grozny, 2000, shooting each other, poor training, poor hygene, the list goes on. Just do an internet search for Lessons Learned in Grozny.

http://www.artofficial-intelligence.com/Grozny.html

Then, the infamous "Custer's Last Stand" by those Russian paratroopers was viewed by every outside observer as a horrible defeat brought about by incompetence, even initially by the Russian military, but now they paper over that defeat by awarding medals and re-writing history as a big victory - this shouldn't surprise anyone, every military does it. Those guys got massacred. Only seven soldiers survived. For anyone interested, just do a wiki search.

[DoomersUnite]

I'm not sure the original poster knows anything at all about history, particularly that of the US military. I mean, the look on Saddam's face alone would seem to indicate someone who thought the US military was all myth as well. Him or Baghdad Bob.

[evgeny]

So Evengy how many Afghanis did your dad kill in the 80s and how many germans did your grandad rape in the 40s?

They are not Germans anymore, we rape them all.
To date all offspring of the German are Russians.
The question for the Germans, when you get back to the family?
Yes Russian did kill Afghanis , but not civilian for fan.

[evgeny]

evgeny,

You're only problem is you believe any hype about "superior" militaries. War is nothing but loss. There are no heros. Even your beloved Russians have embarrassed themselves in Grozny, 2000, shooting each other, poor training, poor hygene, the list goes on. Just do an internet search for Lessons Learned in Grozny.

http://www.artofficial-intelligence.com/Grozny.html

Then, the infamous "Custer's Last Stand" by those Russian paratroopers was viewed by every outside observer as a horrible defeat brought about by incompetence, even initially by the Russian military, but now they paper over that defeat by awarding medals and re-writing history as a big victory - this shouldn't surprise anyone, every military does it. Those guys got massacred. Only seven soldiers survived. For anyone interested, just do a wiki search.

Nobody in Russia think the death of Russian paratroopers victory.
It only speaks about the resistance of the Russian soldier.
91 soldiers began to fight with the enemy 30 times larger and not one soldier has withdrawn from its position to the last, at the cost of their lives they have fulfilled the order and stopped the enemy.

American pilots in Grenada because of cowardice didn't complied order, 3,000 American soldiers lost life

[Cloud9]

Anyone can be taken unawares. That being said, we have eleven Nimitz class carriers any one of which could turn a country the size of France into a parking lot. Then we have a fleet of nuclear submarines and then last but not least we have about thirty million rednecks that would like nothing better than open season on pick an enemy.

If you are worried about China, remember that they have to get here across the bearing straights which will be more than likely glowing in the dark.