[Lumpy]

This is a serious, difficult, scary question.

What do we ANTS (who have made preps) do for love ones/family member GRASSHOPPERS (who have made no preps) ??
(In case you don't know the old fable, ant worked hard all spring/summer/fall PREPARING for winter, while grasshopper played. Ant was ready when winter came. Grasshopper was cold, hungry, and wanted in on ant's 'preps.')

Here's what I'm facing:

Tried to talk grown kids (two sons - both professional commercial/residential painters --- plus at home wife of one of them, and their two sons 4 & 2) into moving to near the farm place here in rural Idaho about 3 yrs ago -- getting whatever work they could (didn't have to be "fulfilling" -- just had to make $$), and working on the farm place every moment they could to build it up faster ... so that it could support everyone "in time."

They showed up but didn't "get it" about the need to "make hay while the sun shines" in terms of making bucks while the economy would pay them ... while putting sweat equity into what would sustain them long-term. They just wanted to play farmer -- without the SLIGHTEST clue as to what needed to happen on a farm ... and without ANY thought for the fact that it costs MONEY to support more people. (i.e. -- NEED TO WORK -- wherever, doing whatever, as long as it's legal, in order to support selves until time came that the farm became primary source of support - by necessity).

So they left again. Now they have all been increasingly living in a world of hurt, and it's getting worse all the time. I.E. Work is scarce. Work, money and food harder to come by.

If a 2X4 up the side of their heads would have convinced them 3 yrs ago that BAU was going away, I would have used it!!!

So, what do all of you with preps plan to do about loved ones without preps as things get harder and harder?

I'm an ant. A WORRIED ant.

Lumpy

[ian807]

Unhappy truths

1) You can't save everyone (This isn't TV).

2) You may not even be able to save yourself.

3) An open giving heart in a TEOTWAWKI situation could well prove personally fatal.

[Lumpy]

Unhappy truths
1) You can't save everyone (This isn't TV).
2) You may not even be able to save yourself.
3) An open giving heart in a TEOTWAWKI situation could well prove personally fatal.

#1 - DEFINITELY agree
#2 - Well, possibly, but feeling like spouse and self will probably be okay
#3 - I guess this is where the moral beliefs, value system, metaphysics -- whatever you want to call it -- "rubber hits the road." The old Biblical question of "What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his own soul?"

I'm not into saving everyone. Can't do it.
But seriously -- do we save the two grandkids??
(They were not in a position to influence their parents' bad decisions - said decisions are rapidly putting the grandkids in peril. I.E. - It wasn't the grandkids' fault. Plus they could actually provide good farm labor as we (and they) grow older. Heck, the 7 year old is a strapping big boy already -- close to 100#, and STRONG!)

What are the rest of you in similar situations going to do???

Lumpy

[scas]

I used to worry about this issue a bit, but since i've discovered the scale of the problem of oil decline/water depletion/runaway climate change/methane extinction I realized that homesteading or farming won't necessarily make any difference. So maybe encourage people to learn to grow some basic foods and save water/energy but that's about it.

[ian807]

But seriously -- do we save the two grandkids??
(They were not in a position to influence their parents' bad decisions - said decisions are rapidly putting the grandkids in peril. I.E. - It wasn't the grandkids' fault. Plus they could actually provide good farm labor as we (and they) grow older. Heck, the 7 year old is a strapping big boy already -- close to 100#, and STRONG!)

What are the rest of you in similar situations going to do???

Lumpy

Saving close relatives that can help you and others survive is one thing. Saving the sick, unskilled, not-too-bright couple who show up at your door with the autistic child is another. As far as morality, per se, goes, I have little advice. It's not something that's subject to proof. I can, however, assess risk and benefits. The couple would be sent on their way, perhaps with a little food if I could spare it, but on their way.

[eXpat]

Outside my front door I ám dull grasshopper, so no one is going to knock here

[Fishman]

Lumpy
You ask a theological question. You're asking the logistics crew however. Prep as best you can, have the tools needed when/if they come back. You've presented them with the facts as you see them. Now you pray if that's in your theological viewpoint. You are the ant and YOU will have to make the call. Asking here is the wrong place.

[the48thronin]

Answering your question with a question.. ( sorry but it works that way).

I did this one many years ago, so the important question is WHY are you prepping? To save yourself? Wat value has family connections in survival?

PS my grand children are just now beginning to get an interest in what my Children rejected as usless farming work years ago. BUt as a demonstration of my decision, my home place has 4 houses and 3 emergency convertable shelters now..... 3 of the houses are being lived in at this time.

You draw your own conclusions.

[americandream]

There's not much you can do for them. By the time they decide it's time to run for shelter (that's assuming they are remote to you), you will be battening down your hatches to fend off your equally crazed neighbours.

[Pops]

This may sound flippant but it really isn't, my main preparation was buying the farm, whoever might need to is help is welcome to come stay, we have lots of room - with the understanding, that they either need to find some kind of paying work or be ready for "chorin'". It's that simple, no buried bullion, not really that many cans of pork n beans, just lots of grass and a pretty good garden plot.

The boys are in the service (son-E6, SIL-E5), and a couple of times over the last couple of years have grumbled about their jobs, they are both instructors, I informed them they should practice being very happy where they are because it's tough out here right now.

I'm thinking it would be a pretty "rough winter" for those (or any) grasshoppers to come out to the farm, and I' don't really expect it anytime soon. But that's OK, they have a back up, just not one too tempting.

[Lumpy]

Lumpy
You ask a theological question. You're asking the logistics crew however. Prep as best you can, have the tools needed when/if they come back. You've presented them with the facts as you see them. Now you pray if that's in your theological viewpoint. You are the ant and YOU will have to make the call. Asking here is the wrong place.

Fishman, while it may be a moral question (in part), I don't think it is necessarily theological.

And I really don't think this is the wrong place to ask.
Because this is the place where I find other people making preps, and I'm thinking many may have offspring and/or parents and/or other loved ones who have no preps -- and about whom the people here are (1) worried; (2) asking themselves what THEY would do.

I'm just interested in hearing how other people are thinking this through, and making their decisions.

You are correct, though. In the end the decision HERE will have to be made HERE.

Lumpy

[Lumpy]

There's not much you can do for them. By the time they decide it's time to run for shelter (that's assuming they are remote to you), you will be battening down your hatches to fend off your equally crazed neighbours.

They are 3.5 hours away.

I guess I wasn't thinking of the "run for shelter" time. I was thinking of when they are saying "I'm out of work again, there is no food in the cupboards, the food banks are empty, we are going to be evicted from our little apartment, etc."

Unlike Pops (above) we don't have "plenty of room". In fact, we only have room for the grandkids to live in the house with us comfortably. Really don't have room for their parents, or the other grown son to live in the house, too, without completely turning our home into a sleep-on-the-floor barracks type situation.

The real question, though, is not ROOM, it's RESOURCES. How many can we save? If we can't save all the kids and grandkids, should we save none? Etc.

Lumpy

PS - By the way, I didn't mention that we have two other grown kids, one married with a young child. They are doing okay financially, but have no real preps. However, that one, plus her husband and kiddo will be cared for by her husband's family, as things get worse. No interest there in moving to the farm. Other one is youngest son - only one who has lived on the farm. He is in college training for a very marketable skill -- has no wife or kids. LEAST worried about him.

[Lumpy]

I did this one many years ago, so the important question is WHY are you prepping? To save yourself? What value has family connections in survival?

PS my grand children are just now beginning to get an interest in what my Children rejected as usless farming work years ago. BUt as a demonstration of my decision, my home place has 4 houses and 3 emergency convertable shelters now..... 3 of the houses are being lived in at this time.

You draw your own conclusions.

Well, there's a good point. We are not going to live forever anyway. So are we prepping just so that we can survive longer? Or are we prepping so that our grandkids can survive, too?

I guess the only logical approach is to figure out how many people we can support besides ourselves. Then open the door to that many.

I KNOW we can't support all the kids and grandkids. Therefore, to be equitable I guess it would just come down to the two grandkids whose parents are flailing.

Wow -- I REALLY hope this is not something we have to decide, or a conversation I have to be involved in. (Me being an ostrich here.) I.E. "Well, we'll take your kids from you and finish raising them, and keep them fed and clothed and schooled. But you guys are on your own." But I think that's what it probably would be.

Lumpy

[Homesteader]

Well, for me the prepping that my wife and I do are as much in order to give our kids a chance as it is for us to scratch out a few more years if TSHTF.

I'm 50 and lived a pretty darn full 50 years. The kids are mid-teens to mid-20s. We have been forthright and direct with them as to why we spend our time and money doing what we do. If they are smart enough or lucky enough to get to our place when it gets bad then good on them.

If they choose not to come or are stuck thousands of miles away we will keep them in our hearts and wish them the best.

Family is family, however they know if they come that there will be no free lunch.

[Cloud9]

The only way I can project myself into the future is through my children. I expect my kids to come back to the farm when the balloon goes up. They are the reason I do what I do.

[vision-master]

A spirit told me to.........

Worry for others

Pray for everyone

Forgive your transgressors

Whatever you do, do it out of love and kindness.

[Ludi]

I'm prepared to take in my immediate family members whether they have prepped or not - my mentally ill sister, diabetic bro-in-law, and 80 year old father. Brain-damaged step-aunt is no longer a worry because she is dying of cancer .

[Ferretlover]

Unhappy truths
3) An open giving heart in a TEOTWAWKI situation could well will prove personally fatal.

Fixed that for you, Ian (I agree with you)

As far as grasshoppers go, ever see a news cast or film where a swarm of grasshoppers descend on a field? Not good.

[rangerone314]

Planning on being able to have the kids live here when they are older if need be... not on the inlaws or parents... too set in ways and not enough room...

[Ludi]

Unhappy truths
3) An open giving heart in a TEOTWAWKI situation could well will prove personally fatal.

Fixed that for you, Ian (I agree with you)

For me it's sort of not relevant, because I'm older and don't expect to survive very long anyway, and I would rather die with my family than live without them.

If I had kids, especially younger kids, I would feel very differently, I'm certain.