[Ibon]

So today here in Seattle I went to this Seafood City supermarket catering mainly to the Asian market. There were fish for sale from New Zealand, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, Ecuador, Mexico, Brazil. Milkfish from Pangasinan Philippines was on sale for $ 1.49 a pound. A small wild caught Butter? fish from Ecuador for .99 cents a pound. Several species of grouper and snapper for under $ 3.99 a pound.

I asked the lady about the Milkfish (Bangus) from Pangasinan Philippines. She said these are farmed fish from about 400 miles north of Manila. They are transported by land or air in the Philippines to Manila, sent by airfreight to Los Angelos and then transported by air or land up to Seattle. They looked fresh.

My question? How is it possible with fuel costs as they are to sell fish at these prices? Farmed around the other side of the planet. Transported long distances domestically in both countries and airfreighted across the Pacific. Add the margins of the supermarket, cost of production etc.

If we are still able to sell fish at these prices with oil over $100 a barrel how high would fuel prices need to rise to really impact this global seafood market here in Seattle?

[Shaved Monkey]

thats very cheap fish
Snapper for $8AuD(I converted) a kilo is that whole or filleted?
I pay $8 a kilo cash as a back hander to a dodgy fisherman to help him with his fuel costs(fresh and excellent)less than a few hours old straight from the great barrier reef and that is considered cheap here.

A local prawner sells all he catches to the large super market chain for $4 a kilo
They sell it for about $20 a kilo
he sells fresh to us for $10 for a few kilos

I was talking to a local crabber he pays $750 in fuel just to go out every day to catch crabs
He gives away all the broken crabs to his mates for free (he cant sell them,his contract says he has to dump them)
When he goes for fish he pays $2,500 and stays out for a week to make it worth while

[Crazy_Dad]

Just watch the doco End of the line.
Seafood will go the way of the dinosaur soon. Even the krill get harvested now.

The only solution is to only eat what you personally catch(me - 2 fish once a year) and for the human population to stabilise then drop. I miss fish. Never buy canned fish. Period.
Never buy commercial fish caught in nets the size of SEVEN jumbo jets.

If we denude the oceans of life first just miss out the stabalise bit.

[Ibon]

For everyone conscious of the plundering of the seas there are several million unaware who will keep buying seafood especially at these prices I took note of at this supermarket. Scarcity at some point together with fuel costs will make seafood unfordable but we seem to still be a long way from there even with fuel prices where they are. We are still shipping seafood by airfreight from the other side of the planet and bringing this product to consumers at very low prices. No voluntary change happening from consumers and no imposed forces either on the short term horizon to change this status quo. The global seafood market remains robust.

[misterno]

most fish domestic or imported sold in USA are farmed fish and for me there is no value in them

That is why it is cheap

Try getting an unfrozen wild caught salmon from Alaska, you will end up paying $15/lbs if you can find them

Most out there are prefrozen which is why they lose taste

also, stay away from fish caught around gulf of mexico and japan, philiipines, taiwan and china

99% of the fish served in restaurants is tilapia farmed in china

eating plastic is more healthy than farmed fish in china

there was an article about this in businessweek last month. You won't belive what they feed to fish and all Americans eat this.

[Loki]

For everyone conscious of the plundering of the seas there are several million unaware who will keep buying seafood especially at these prices I took note of at this supermarket. Scarcity at some point together with fuel costs will make seafood unfordable but we seem to still be a long way from there even with fuel prices where they are. We are still shipping seafood by airfreight from the other side of the planet and bringing this product to consumers at very low prices. No voluntary change happening from consumers and no imposed forces either on the short term horizon to change this status quo. The global seafood market remains robust.

The global seafood trade is pretty obscene. It encapsulates everything that's wrong with our economy and our relationship to the environment.

As for when it'll collapse, who knows? When commercial aviation mostly goes away due to skyrocketing oil prices, I'd imagine.

[Ibon]

Milk Fish and Tilapia are two examples of fresh water farmed fish that do take pressure off wild caught marine fisheries and are therefore "sustainable" in this sense. The marine ecosystems are better off the more people consume these fish. We can expect to see an increase in their consumption as marine fisheries deplete. These fish also can be farmed in less than pure waters which makes them also "sustainable" in a more polluted world. You can add catfish to this category.

[Loki]

Milk Fish and Tilapia are two examples of fresh water farmed fish that do take pressure off wild caught marine fisheries and are therefore "sustainable" in this sense. The marine ecosystems are better off the more people consume these fish. We can expect to see an increase in their consumption as marine fisheries deplete. These fish also can be farmed in less than pure waters which makes them also "sustainable" in a more polluted world. You can add catfish to this category.

I'd have a hard time classifying a food product that is jetted around the world as "sustainable." But sure, farmed tilapia is less unsustainable than the great majority of wild fisheries. Or salmon farming, which is reliant on wild fish for feed.

It's best to just avoid these products. And some need to be outright banned, like California is trying to do with shark fin soup (just one of many examples of the environmental problems associated with excessive immigration and "multiculturalism").

I think severe tariffs on imported seafood and outright bans on unsustainable products would be a good start. I like to think peak oil and associated economic problems will make it impossible for us to finish strip mining the ocean, but I don't think it will. We'll turn coal into gasoline to catch the last fish in the ocean.

[Tyler_JC]

The world wants protein. Fish farms provide that protein. As we empty the world's oceans, "real" seafood will become rarer and rarer but we'll still have fish. Just as free range beef went from the norm to an expensive alternative to the farmed kind, so will fish.



It's also important to realize that in terms of calorie in/calorie out, aquaculture is substantially more efficient than cattle or even chickens.

I'd say the future portends more fish farms, not fewer.

[PeakOiler]

Come on y'all, most of us are still Eating Fossil Fuels, so why not take a more direct approach. Eat more Gulf of Mexico shrimp, courtesy of BP.

Last time I checked the local grocery, Gulf shrimp was ca. $5.99 - $7.99 per pound. I didn't buy any.

http://cw.ua.edu/2011/04/20/bp-oil-spill-effects-still-being-seen/

'April 20th' marked the one-year anniversary of the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, one of the largest oil spills in history.

The impact of the spill continues to affect those who live and work on the Gulf coast even though the well was capped in July.

Wathen, who just visited the coast last weekend, said right now, 99 percent of the Gulf is open for fishing and has supposedly tested safe for consumption, but the fishermen won’t eat their catch.

“There’s oil in the shrimp, there’s oil in the crabs,” Wathen said. “We’ve got dolphins washing up on our beaches in unprecedented numbers with unprecedented lesions on their skin. This is not normal.”

[Shaved Monkey]

Aquaponics is the future direction I'm heading in.(should be in next year ,this year was solar panels and solar hot water.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baLp1neH ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Suz7gLZ3fB4&NR=1
Should be able to raise 50 fish a year(1 a week) plus yabbies(fresh water crayfish) and all my greens in a small area in the back yard
The initial set up cost is about $2000(doing it myself ). and the on going cost is about $70 in electricity and the cost of baby fish and some supplementary feed.
The majority of the food will be worms,Soldier Fly Larva http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnfkW4WgtG8, Duckweed, brewing waste from home brew and bugs. http://www.bugspray.com/catalog/products/page2173.html
http://backyardaquaponics.com/forum/vie ... 88033b41f9

[Sixstrings]

BTW, Tilapia is nice with a sweet & sour sauce, or in a Thai curry.

Get used to farmed fish, we have.

I tried one of these the other day and liked it:



Actually a bit pricey close to $5 for two little fillet squares. Convenient for lunch though, tastes good for frozen food.

Favorite seafood:

chilean sea bass, mahi-mahi, grouper, flounder, scallops, shrimp, lobster

Yum. I guess I'm doomed between mercury, corexit, oil, and now radiation. Plus whatever the Chinese are feeding to the tilapia (dissidents?).

[Serial_Worrier]

Just watch the doco End of the line.
Seafood will go the way of the dinosaur soon. Even the krill get harvested now.

The only solution is to only eat what you personally catch(me - 2 fish once a year) and for the human population to stabilise then drop. I miss fish. Never buy canned fish. Period.
Never buy commercial fish caught in nets the size of SEVEN jumbo jets.

If we denude the oceans of life first just miss out the stabalise bit.

Why do you assume we will put no stop to this plunder? At a certain point, awareness will grow and will give rise to sustainable fishing. People will switch to eating more land-meat. Turkey is good!

[Shaved Monkey]

Omega 3 is the reason we need fish in our diet
Japanese don't live the longest because they eat turkey
Hopefully the price of oil will make fishing un-economic and fish will restock.
Will be great for those with a rod who live near some water.

[Loki]

Omega 3 is the reason we need fish in our diet

Humans certainly don't NEED fish in our diet to live long healthy lives. That's simply untrue.

Small-scale aquaculture interests me, I could see it being quite viable in some areas. But giant commercial fish farms are monstrosities. I suggest those who suggest we just switch to farmed fish do a bit of research on the ecological impact of large-scale fish farming. Start with farmed Atlantic salmon and tell me it's a good, desirable thing.

[Shaved Monkey]

Didn't say we need fish to live long healthy lives just Omega 3 helps and fish have it. So does Purslane as I have said in another thread.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portulaca_oleracea
My small scale localised fish farming suggestion had ways of feeding you fish that were sustainable.
Currently most fish farms, feed fish, fish food that is made up of fish so that cant go on for ever.