[Sixstrings]

Shocking: 60% of US Teens Believe Torture Is OK

MSNBC just did a story on something that I had wondered about as well --- why were so many big celebrations after the announcement of bin Laden's death particularly raucous among college students around the country? They showed footage of various campuses and interviewed a couple of the students who explained that they were in the 6th grade when it happened and were just thrilled that it was finally over and that justice was finally done. It was truly a huge, patriotic moment for them.

I realized that the "War on Terror" has been going on for half their lives, so it seems like forever to them. And it reminded me just how much the zeitgest of the moment is "reality" when you are young. The GWOT and the militarization of America is just the way the world is to young people today. Which is probably why they also believe in this:

"A new study by the American Red Cross obtained exclusively by The Daily Beast found that a surprising majority—almost 60 percent—of American teenagers thought things like water-boarding or sleep deprivation are sometimes acceptable. More than half also approved of killing captured enemies in cases where the enemy had killed Americans. When asked about the reverse, 41 percent thought it was permissible for American troops to be tortured overseas. In all cases, young people showed themselves to be significantly more in favor of torture than older adults."
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/578084/shocking%3A_60_of_us_teens_believe_torture_is_ok

Odd thing about this study is that 41% of respondents think it's ok for US soldiers to be tortured.

Also, watching the Republican debate last night it seems like bringing back waterboarding is a big issue for the right.

[AdTheNad]

You know, it's getting harder and harder not to Godwin more and more threads about America and Americans these days.

I think we should have a register of people for and against torture. If you are for torture and you are ever caught doing anything wrong, or if you are ever suspected of doing anything wrong, or are just in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong coloured face.... well best hope that never happens.

So given that we know many people don't respond to torture, it is used on many innocent people, it results in dubious information (Salem witch trials anyone?) but sometimes may produce results, how many people is it OK to abuse to get that information?

[eXpat]

Brainwashing works! Besides if Jack Bauer does it, then is cool!

[EnergyUnlimited]

Odd thing about this study is that 41% of respondents think it's ok for US soldiers to be tortured.

Also, watching the Republican debate last night it seems like bringing back waterboarding is a big issue for the right.

These are signs of cultural collapse where usually progressive youth are turning into barbarians.
You have seen nothing yet.
Slavery will also be acceptable pretty soon.

[Lore]

My nephew says it works just fine in “Call of Duty - Black Ops”.

[DomusAlbion]

Water boarding never killed anyone, terrorist plots do kill people.

Psychological torture is acceptable given the fact that we are in a war. Our enemies would think nothing of physical torture, maiming and killing any of ours.

IMHO

[Novus]

The Milgram experiment was conducted in 1974 and showed that 66% of the people tested went along with the concept of torturing. Nothing has changed.

[Lore]

Water boarding never killed anyone, terrorist plots do kill people.

Psychological torture is acceptable given the fact that we are in a war. Our enemies would think nothing of physical torture, maiming and killing any of ours.

IMHO

Waterboarding has been pretty much determined as physical torture.

Do we want to lower ourselves to the techniques of torture used by our enemies or do we proclaim ourselves to be better then that? Are we asking for security at any price regardless of how it affects our values, or do we subject ourselves to the tragedy of the commons?

[dinopello]

I think the topic is interesting. Teens grew up with Jack Baur who never tortured an innocent person and who always saved the world just by slicing the guy's palms open or something. But, it's also interesting to consider if anything has really changed. Our secretary was surprised to learn there was any rules ever regarding the treatment of prisoners of war. "It's war, why are there any rules?"

Personally, I think its good that torture is illegal in my country. If an individual believes he can save the world by torturing someone, he or she can perform the torture and save the world and if caught, face his or her day in court. If he/she did indeed save the world then I'm sure the jury would take that into account.

[EOTWAWKI]

I only ever saw a single episode of "24" or "24 Hours", whatever it was called and I though that the whole show was just right wing propaganda to soften up the American public to accept the idea of torture. I haven't changed my mind. Didn't hurt that the program was on FOX either.

[Oakley]

That is probably because they are accustomed from the torture of poor quality parenting.

Brutality is either learned behavior, or its opposite, gentleness, is learned behavior; whichever it is, most of the failure is in parenting.

[DomusAlbion]

Do we want to lower ourselves to the techniques of torture used by our enemies or do we proclaim ourselves to be better then that?

We adapt to the situation and sometimes adopt the rules set by our adversaries. During WWII the American Marines faced a ruthless, cruel and savage enemy in the Japanese soldier and the rules of Bushido. These Americans were, for the most part, working class kids with mild temperaments and an open and innocent view of the world. The Japanese taught them that their Middle American morals and conduct counted for nothing in the jungles of the Pacific.
In the end the Americans adapted the behavior of their enemies in order to defeat them. Heads of dead Japanese soldiers were cut off and put on spikes on the tanks of the Americans; fleeing men were burned alive using napalm. There were no war crimes as a result. We had to win and we did.

[Fishman]

The ususal misinterpretation of the data. The study looked at sleep deprivation and waterboarding. They did not interpret this as torture. Domus is corect. Any war requires folk to do things they never would consider otherwise. Again Domus is correct. Unfortunately if you follow Lore's thought process in this war, you may be noble (not really) but you cease to exist. And Oakley has clearly never picked up a history book in his/her life. The left twists the data to their viewpoint, but it fails over and over.
For a real a$$kicking at msdnc clarifying data
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-shepp ... guests-you

[eXpat]

Water boarding never killed anyone, terrorist plots do kill people.

Psychological torture is acceptable given the fact that we are in a war. Our enemies would think nothing of physical torture, maiming and killing any of ours.

IMHO

Oh well, since water boarding is not torture and is an acceptable interrogation technique, maybe it should be included in the accepted accepted repertoire of police techniques to extract information? If you are visiting the local police station, get ready to get wet!
That is a road you don´t want to start walking...

[AdTheNad]

Any war requires folk to do things they never would consider otherwise.
Unfortunately if you follow Lore's thought process in this war, you may be noble (not really) but you cease to exist.

Unbelievable. Seriously you people, if America did an equivalent of 9/11 in Iraq or Afghanistan you would be cheering and saying it had to be done. Well America has done way way worse, try multiplying the civilian body count by at least 100 for a start. But that's OK, because your team is the best! You are on the side of righteousness, even though you use torture and start illegal wars of aggression and resource wars like you are playing a computer game.

Just for a minute, pretend you are not American, try putting yourselves in the shoes of people America has blown up. You are not the good guys.

[PrestonSturges]

I only ever saw a single episode of "24" or "24 Hours", whatever it was called and I though that the whole show was just right wing propaganda to soften up the American public to accept the idea of torture. I haven't changed my mind. Didn't hurt that the program was on FOX either.

I could not watch it because the action sequences were so contrived and absurd (You carry the ammunition for me, now go way over there), and the continuity was so bad. Someone would be gut shot and near death and the next episode has them all better even though the elapsed time was supposed to be 20 minutes. And Jack was killing like 10 or 20 people on an average day, even on his days off he'd have to cap 3 or 4 people just going down to the corner for a quart of milk.

[DomusAlbion]

even on his days off he'd have to cap 3 or 4 people just going down to the corner for a quart of milk.

Ha, ha!

It was a highly contrived show but the first few seasons had their thrills. Is it still on? We haven't had TV since 2005.

[Pops]

There is a reason you don't get to vote till you're 18.


I don't believe in torture because I believe we are a nation of laws, laws designed to protect the innocent from the powerful and self-righteous - in theory anyway.

Unfortunately I think the idea of infallibility and fear of the powerful are out of fashion right now.

Radical Muslim Terrorism is not a war between nations that threatens our physical liberty or the destruction of our country. Those extremists are no different than the extremists and the wider network of "militias" behind the OKC bombing and I doubt anyone would have approved of waterboarding a Dividian or pulling out the fingernails of Tim Mcveigh's neighbor. Yet to me they are in exactly the same class.


It reminds me of the overuse of anti-bacterials that effectively make our immune system weak since it is never challenged - Americans are now so removed from any existential threat we gladly hand over our freedoms, and cheer, in return for perceived security from a relatively small threat.

[PrestonSturges]

It's not a coincidence that the same people that advocate torture would want to censor history, science, and literature in the schools.

Also, the same people that advocate torture are often the same people that explain everything (media, history, global warming, evolution etc etc etc etc ) in terms of conspiracy.

Listening to the typical advocate of torture, if it so wonderful and given that conspiracies arent everywhere, then shouldn't torture be used universally?

Teens are a boiling mix of conflict, stress, guilt, sadism, masochism, and other primitive emotions. People that continue to advocate for torture as adults never grew up.

[davep]

What I find odd is that those who seem to be advocating torture are the first to bang on about their right to bear arms.

You have a fabulous history that brought about the constitution and the bill of rights. Yet you're prepared to ignore that principle just because it was your party who did a little bit of torturing that may have been useful in capturing a guy in Pakistan. Get some perspective chaps.