[Oneaboveall]

Every two to three years, Eddie Sales trims and prunes the crape myrtles at his church, Albemarle Road Presbyterian Church.

But this year, the city of Charlotte cited the church for improperly pruning its trees.

"We always keep our trees trimmed back because you don't want to worry about them hanging down in the way," said Sales, a church member.

The church was fined $100 per branch cut for excessive pruning, bringing the violation to $4,000.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/0 ... z1NsoObPxD

I'm not a big libertarian, but are you (expletive deleted) kidding me?!?

[Sixstrings]

Hm.. conflicting reasons given. First the city official says it's for safety reasons:

"When they are nonrepairable, when they have been pruned beyond repair, we will ask them to be replaced," Johnson said. "We do that for a number of reasons but mainly because they are going to come back unhealthy and create a dangerous situation down the road."

Not sure what that means, unless they're saying "improperly pruned" trees grow back wild or something and get caught up in power lines. But that's a stretch.. how can a *pruned* tree be "dangerous."

Then he says the fine is to protect the trees:

"The purpose of the tree ordinance is to protect trees," Johnson said. "Charlotte has always been known as the city of trees. When we take down trees, we need to replace these trees."

And apparently, residents of Charlotte actually need a permit to prune their trees in the first place:

Individuals who would like to trim their trees should call the city foresters to receive a free permit to conduct the landscape work. Foresters will then meet with the person receiving the permit and give instructions on how to properly trim their trees, Johnson said.

[Sixstrings]

Maybe the good citizens of the City of Charlotte hate Christians? Isn't hatred allowed anymore in a free country?

Hm yeah they need to ban Christmas.. if the law says the safety of trees must be protected, how can you justify everyone in the city killing a tree just to prop it up in their living room.

Bit of a slippery slope here.. private property within city limits isn't the same thing as a national forest. Trees on private property have no right to be protected from harm.. if the owner wants to prune it or even chop it down and burn it in the fireplace then that's their business not the city's.

[PrestonSturges]

I would appeal based on the Crepe Myrtles being shrubs rather than trees. Lots of plants can be kept as shrubs OR trees depending on how they are pruned.

[Oneaboveall]

Maybe the good citizens of the City of Charlotte hate Christians? Isn't hatred allowed anymore in a free country?

Hm yeah they need to ban Christmas.. if the law says the safety of trees must be protected, how can you justify everyone in the city killing a tree just to prop it up in their living room.

Bit of a slippery slope here.. private property within city limits isn't the same thing as a national forest. Trees on private property have no right to be protected from harm.. if the owner wants to prune it or even chop it down and burn it in the fireplace then that's their business not the city's.

Which is why I publicly addressed this to our favorite libertarian. I believe he might be on to something. He's also not the only one that has theorized that our feudal overlords are creating laws for the purpose of criminalizing everyday behavior.

[Tyler_JC]

Were I the pastor of that church, I’d refuse to pay. Let them drag me into court and put me before a jury of my peers.

Just imagine a pastor before a jury of good Christian folk being tried for the crime of pruning a tree.

That assumes the judge doesn’t just toss the case out.

[Sixstrings]

Which is why I publicly addressed this to our favorite libertarian. I believe he might be on to something. He's also not the only one that has theorized that our feudal overlords are creating laws for the purpose of criminalizing everyday behavior.

The article says the city only fines about six people per year. But the fines are pretty hefty:

On private property, fine amounts are based on the size of the tree improperly pruned. For small trees such as cherry trees or crape myrtles, the fine is $75 per tree. Excessive cutting can increase that fine to $100 per branch.

For large trees such as oaks or maples, the fine is $150 per tree.

Because there is a widespread lack of understanding on how to prune crape myrtles in the Charlotte area, Johnson said, residents found in violation regarding these trees are asked to simply replace them, and the fine will be lifted.

That's rather pricey there, a hundred bucks per branch.

Pretty bizarre stuff.. can you imagine, some "city forestry director" ordering you to REPLACE a tree that was your property to begin with, and should be YOUR RIGHT to prune or cut down or paint orange if you darn well please. I've heard of crazy HOA rules, but absent deed restriction I've never heard of an ordinance saying what you can do with your own trees. Where I live, only issue is power lines.. and even there the power company does the pruning free of charge.

Can't they find some real crime in Charlotte? What, they don't have any crackheads so they have to harass a church?

(here's a thought.. maybe it's the fines that pay for the urban forester's salary.. so yeah that's where Mattduke is right. Hiring a city forester sounds warm and fuzzy, but every new government regulatory job added has the power to fine, and they issue those fines to justify their job.. the fines add up)

[Oneaboveall]

...Can't they find some real crime in Charlotte? What, they don't have any crackheads so they have to harass a church?

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/0 ... -dead.html

our feudal overlords are creating laws for the purpose of criminalizing everyday behavior.

I doubt it's the Lizard People. More likely prissy members the local Design Review Board who are in charge of good taste.

True. I shouldn't continue to be amazed at how petty people get when they get a little power. "...the politics are so vicious, because the stakes are so low."

[Nefarious]

The threat of people acting in their own enlightened and rational self-interest strikes bureaucrats, politicians and social workers as ominous and dangerous.

-W.G.Hill

It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume...that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert that assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is his right under the law, they begin searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him.

-H.L.Mencken

[Oneaboveall]

The threat of people acting in their own enlightened and rational self-interest strikes bureaucrats, politicians and social workers as ominous and dangerous.

-W.G.Hill

It is the invariable habit of bureaucracies, at all times and everywhere, to assume...that every citizen is a criminal. Their one apparent purpose, pursued with a relentless and furious diligence, is to convert that assumption into a fact. They hunt endlessly for proofs, and, when proofs are lacking, for mere suspicions. The moment they become aware of a definite citizen, John Doe, seeking what is his right under the law, they begin searching feverishly for an excuse for withholding it from him.

-H.L.Mencken

That's strange. I never knew Mencken was a high school teacher.

[Loki]

Not sure what that means, unless they're saying "improperly pruned" trees grow back wild or something and get caught up in power lines. But that's a stretch.. how can a *pruned* tree be "dangerous."

When people improperly prune large trees (i.e., topping), the resulting growth is considerably weaker, resulting in a hazard tree---hacking at a tree can also lead to disease, another way to weaken the tree (I would never park under a topped tree, especially if a windstorm was on the way). There is no way to "fix" a topped tree, the only thing to do is to remove and replant.

This is simple arboriculture, no conspiracy theory here. Topping (which is probably what the church did) is a destructive form of "pruning" that can result in a public hazard if that tree is in the parking strip. Street trees are not exactly "private property" in most cities, they're in a public right of way and subject to public regulations. Again, not a conspiracy theory cooked up by power-mad bureaucrats. I worked as an arborist for a few years, and I agree with both of these considerations. People get real stupid when it comes to "pruning" trees.

That said, crepemyrtles are pretty small trees and are unlikely to result in a hazardous situation. The adjacent property owner who destroyed public property (assuming they were planted along the street) should be required to replace the tree at their own cost, and to pay a fine for destruction of public property.

And apparently, residents of Charlotte actually need a permit to prune their trees in the first place:

Again, this likely only applies to trees in the public right of way. And they should be required to have a permit, because 99% of people have ZERO idea how to properly prune a tree. They usually hack at it w/o any idea what they're doing, destroying the tree (public property) and creating a potential hazard tree.

Individuals who would like to trim their trees should call the city foresters to receive a free permit to conduct the landscape work. Foresters will then meet with the person receiving the permit and give instructions on how to properly trim their trees, Johnson said.

[/quote]

You laugh, I'm sure, because you wouldn't know a good pruning job from a hack job. The permit is free, what's your problem? It's simply a way for trained arborists to prevent people from doing stupid shit to trees in the public right of way.