[Lumpy]

I am have been self-employed most of the time since 2005, and my husband quit working in 2007, realizing it would take all of his time/energy to whip the old farm we bought into productive shape.

I worked as an employee from 6/09 through 2/2010 -- at which time the employer laid me off. We had been caring for my dying brother, and the employer decided they couldn't allow me an extra week to get through the memorial service.

It worked out okay -- got to return to farm earlier than expected (job was in the city), and they had to subsidized our COBRA for 15 months. So through 5/2011 our health, dental and vision insurance (husband and me) has been costing us about $320/month out of pocket. That popped up to $920/month this month, and ends altogether at the end of August.

So I have been insurance shopping.

In May, 2009, our self-paid insurance premium was about $840/month. We have not developed any new illnesses, etc, since then. For the SAME coverage now with the SAME company at a DISCOUNTED rate (because of where we buy our car/homeowner's insurance) the cost is $2041.00/month!!!!!!

Um ... that's not happening ... well, more to the point, that can't happen, financially. So I am very busy trying to find cheaper insurance (less coverage, no doubt), plus cheapest place to pay cash for our regular prescriptions.

This is scary. Just wondered how the rest of you are doing, health-insurance-wise.

Please vote, and make a comment.

Thanks,

Lumpy

[vision-master]

I'm still going round and round with Healthwell Foundation in order to get Premium Assistance reimursement.

[Pops]

Hey Lumpy, we gave ours up as business (freelance print graphics) began to slide - '07-ish. Of course after not seeing a doc for an illness all the years I paid for insurance, I developed type I diabetes in '09 and spent a week in the hospital, it was a big bill but a non-profit hospital and they gave me a nice break because I was earning next to nothing at the time.

Our income has bounced back a little since, but pre-existing type I is a bad sign! Something like 400% increased risk of heart attack etc. so they don't give insurance away gladly. I could probably get a catastrophic policy for $800-$1000 through the state assigned risk pool.

[Satori]

I'm VERY fortunate to have excellent health insurance through my employer
I recently had over $55,000 in UNEXPECTED medical bills
my out of pocket expenses ?
just a little over $2,000

[PrestonSturges]

Some of the catastrophic coverage isn't bad. I have Cigna with a $5K deductable and 100% after that for $200 a month.

[Lumpy]

Some of the catastrophic coverage isn't bad. I have Cigna with a $2K deductable and 100% after that for $200 a month.

Wow - you scored with that.
I will check them out -- thanks.

Lumpy

[PrestonSturges]

Some of the catastrophic coverage isn't bad. I have Cigna with a $2K deductable and 100% after that for $200 a month.

Wow - you scored with that.
I will check them out -- thanks.
Lumpy

Oops I meaant $5 K not $2K, I'll edit that.

Check the site http://www.ehealthinsurance.com for comparative quotes.

You have to answer the usual medical history questions. I have no medical history (knock wood)

[Lumpy]

Oops I meaant $5 K not $2K, I'll edit that.
Check the site http://www.ehealthinsurance.com for comparative quotes.
You have to answer the usual medical history questions. I have no medical history (knock wood)

Thanks, I did go there. Cigna does not have coverage in our state.
Even with 5K deductible you scored.

I am in process of filling out online app ... but looks like best I can possibly get is 7K deductible ... no payment for anything until then, and then 25% cost to me until total out of pocket of 12K. This would cost me $580/month ... and because we DO take some meds (not a lot, and nothing major -- no cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc) the rate will probably be higher.

Too young for Medicare (such as it is) and income too limited to really afford any real coverage.

First time EVER have faced possibility of being without insurance. Not liking the concept!

Lumpy

[Oakley]

My wife and I have Medicare, parts A & B, but by choice not part D as we regard most drugs as more dangerous than beneficial and would not take them even if they were given to us free.

Before that we never carried health or life insurance during the 30 prior years when I worked for myself, but did have accident insurance. During that time we took, and still do take high doses of vitamins and minerals and slanted our diets toward health to the best of our abilities. We only used medical services as a last resort and either as a result of our actions or just dumb luck, we did not need them except for a handful of times, twice for serious cuts and a few times for infections. If I understood the value of iodine then, I doubt that we would have had the infections. We did use dental services when needed and paid out of pocket; before dental insurance became common, dental costs were not as high as they are today.

Because of advancing age, we probably will keep Medicare until it and the federal government finally collapse, and of course, will continue to manage our lives as we have done to this date.

I think that poor health has a significant component of being self induced through bad life style decisions, so hopefully we can continue to avoid that component, and only need to deal with the unavoidable effects of environment, inherited constitution and accidents. I do think modern medicine is at its best in dealing with accidents and infections, but is highly incompetent with "metabolic diseases" like cardiovascular disease, cancer, and other body malfunctions resulting from unbalanced nutrition and/or pollutants.

What do you imagine the health industry would be like if health insurance were made illegal and the government got out of the business of approving or prohibiting what and who we use to deal with health issues? I think the range of available services would broaden and competition would make evident which of these work best and are the most cost effective; those people who do a poor job of managing their own health would be the ones who suffer the most, instead of the present system where the cost of their poor decisions are placed on the shoulders of others through the insurance system. And without the support of government licensing and prohibition, the drug and medical oligopoly would lose its ability to fleece the public resulting in lower costs. And as a final resort, people would be in a position to be more charitable to help those who needed help, as was the case before government became involved.

[vision-master]

My wife and I have Medicare, parts A & B, but by choice not part D as we regard most drugs as more dangerous than beneficial and would not take them even if they were given to us free.

That is dumb, now you will be penalized. You can get part D for around $100 Month.

I'm calling you just cheap......

those people who do a poor job of managing their own health would be the ones who suffer the most

This is nothing but a myth, what will you do if'n you get something like RA, shrivel up in a wheelchair? I wuz racing MTbikes @ age 50, now without Remicade I'd be in ruff shape. You will most likey either NOT pay for your EOL care, or your kids will empty your coffers to pay the medical bills for your final day's here.

[Queaks]

We have basic medical coverage for me, my wife, and 1 son. We have no prescription, dental or eye care. It is a HAP HMO. This costs us over $1600 a month, so I can see $2000 a month in parts of the country.

I tend to pay for a more preferred doctor out of pocket and use HAP for emergencies and colds, etc.

I wish there was a good catastrophic coverage with say a 10K deductible. I think like a lot of small business owners/ professionals I can afford the 10K out of pocket for a reduced monthly cost, what I can't afford is the serious illness/injury that could cost a million or more.

I wish Obama had gone the HSA route that would work for most people, rather than gear it towards the uninsured, who will be a drain on the system in any environment, but then he doesn't like people that work for a living, he want us to need the government.

Good Luck and look at catastrophic or high deductible coverage it may be available for you.

[Lumpy]

those people who do a poor job of managing their own health would be the ones who suffer the most

This is nothing but a myth, what will you do if'n you get something like RA, shrivel up in a wheelchair? I wuz racing MTbikes @ age 50, now without Remicade I'd be in ruff shape. You will most likey either NOT pay for your EOL care, or your kids will empty your coffers to pay the medical bills for your final day's here.

I practice medicine, and I know the value of taking care of oneself. Still I kind of have to go with VisionMaster on this one.

One's health is NOT just a matter of the care one takes of oneself. Genetics plays a big part in health, too. (Cholesterol levels is a great example of this.)

Yeah, if I could get Medicare today, there is no way I would skip on Part D. I would not want to have surgery for an injury (e.g. chain saw, tractor, kicked by a cow and had compound fracture of broken leg) without benefit of antibiotic and post-op pain meds.

Yeah, you nailed it on this one, VM.

Lumpy

[AgentR11]

You will most likey either NOT pay for your EOL care, or your kids will empty your coffers to pay the medical bills for your final day's here.

Or you can take steps to insure that EOL isn't all that expensive.
You are not required by law to call 911 or drive to the hospital before you die.

[misterno]

I have a question

A friend of mine works in a restaurant probably making 7-8 bucks an hour. 44 years old and last week he was taken to the hospital with an ambulance for his gall bladder and he had a surgery

Yesterday he calls me and says the bill is $70K and asks me if personal bankruptcy is a good option or not because he can not pay this

So what do you recommend him to do/

[vision-master]

You are not required by law to call 911 or drive to the hospital before you die.

Dude, must ppl die nice slow painful deaths. Get used to it as 'no one get's out of here alive'.

Why do you think so many of those 'old' ppl end up using walkers, bad diets?

[Oakley]

This is nothing but a myth, what will you do if'n you get something like RA, shrivel up in a wheelchair? I wuz racing MTbikes @ age 50, now without Remicade I'd be in ruff shape. You will most likey either NOT pay for your EOL care, or your kids will empty your coffers to pay the medical bills for your final day's here.

Clearly you and I look at the world with different eyes. Your position seems to be reliance on the established medical system; I reject a significant portion of it. It is not a matter of being cheap; it is a matter of judgment as to what is effective and what is snake oil.

Here is an alternative view of RA to that which you hold. When one's immune system it attacking one's own cells, it is likely because it is recognizing these cells as foreign bodies. The recognition process is based on psychical shape, implying that one's cells are developing misshaped. This could be happing because one element we need is being displaced by another.

The most likely candidate relates to problems with the halogen group of elements. Fluorine, chlorine, bromine, iodine and astatine from smallest to largest, comprise this group. There is no recommended daily allowance for fluorine or bromine, but without chlorine and iodine we would die. Astatine is so rare as to be ignored for this discussion. This group of elements is highly reactive which is why they are all used as disinfectants. This is because they each have only 7 electrons in their outer orbit; the most electronegative is fluorine and the least is iodine. Our cells have receptors which are designed for iodine to attach, giving them a characteristic shape. But fluorine and bromine are more electronegative, so given equal amounts of intake, fluorine and bromine will steal the receptor sites and drive iodine out of our bodies. Experiments as early as the mid 1800's showed that rats would develop goiter when given large amounts of fluorine, for example, because it drove iodine out of our cells. Today, with the large amount of fluorine and bromine that we ingest or absorb, it is no wonder that we are suffering breakdown of body systems.

This is not a complete discussion, but an example of an alternative approach, if I were suffering the deterioration you describe, that I would take to drugging the symptoms that conventional medicine offers. I may be wrong in this particular analysis, but I certainly would experiment on myself by increasing iodine intake and avoiding fluorine and bromine. This is a much different world view from yours.

An example of how wrong conventional wisdom is on this topic, the RDA for iodine is 150 micrograms. At the same time many water systems fluoridate water at the rate of 1 PPM which equals 3.78 milligrams per gallon. If you live in a fluoridated community, use fluoridated toothpaste, use fluoridated mouthwash, drink tea (high in calcium fluoride), drink sodas made with fluoridated water, and allow your dentist to use fluoride on you, you might be intaking 8 milligrams or more a day; this over 20 years would easily be sufficient to give you serious skeletal fluorosis (osteoarthritis, RA). If you are only getting the 150 micrograms daily amount of iodine (which few are), your system would be overwhelmed by fluoride and many of your cells would be misshaped with fluorine taking the place of iodine. It is no wonder that people have problems with their thyroid and thyroid hormone levels with fluoride and bromine driving our iodine. (Bromine is widely used in the food industry to retard spoilage, in cars, in electronics, and even is in mattresses and clothing as a fire retardant.) Inadequate thyroid hormone leads to slow cellular metabolism which affects other organs and hormone systems, such as pancreatic function (type II diabetes). Apoptosis, programmed cell replacement, is retarded when metabolism is slowed down, increasing the risk of cancer.

Another example of the difference between reliance on conventional medicine and using alternative knowledge is gall stones referenced in a later post in this thread. It is widely known outside of conventional medicine that a short fast followed by a cup of olive oil and grapefruit juice will expel the stones quite effectively without thousands of dollars of surgery and hospitalization.

Another example is the cholesterol myth, discussed in this article:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi69.html

[PrestonSturges]

Unfortunately, a lot of families just aren't that healthy. In some families, everyone gets heart disease, in other families everyone gets a specific cancer, or half of them have schizoid or bipoloar symptoms. And some people have a kid with severe birth defects and have to deal with that for the rest of their lives.

[Lumpy]

Unfortunately, a lot of families just aren't that healthy. In some families, everyone gets heart disease, in other families everyone gets a specific cancer, or half of them have schizoid or bipoloar symptoms. And some people have a kid with severe birth defects and have to deal with that for the rest of their lives.

Thank you for saying this, Preston - and saying it well. Not EVERY medical problem is because a person is karmically (sp?) or psychically imbalanced.
Lumpy

[Fiddlerdave]

I have Obamacare's new Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP). It is really great!

I carried health insurance for all of my mostly self-employed life, but lost it after a screwup with the insurance company a few years ago. I then found I was entirely mensurable due to high blood pressure and thyroid problems (my whole family has them - lots of chemicals in our rural farm childhood!)

Those insurance companies are psychic - three months after I lost my insurance I ended up in the hospital with pneumonia and the first stage of congestive heart failure, in part caused by extreme arrhythmia. Over the next three years, I was hospitalized twice more, totaling $250,000, although other than tests and maintenance, nothing was done to actually fix my problem (a pacemaker) - it costs very little to keep someone in an existing ICU bed, but a pacemaker needs money.

While I could easily have gotten on Social security disability, you don't get Medicare until two years after you get the disability. I needed to come up with nearly $800/mo for medicines and tests each month for maintenance of my 20% ejection fraction heart and associated issues, and thus could not get SSD because you need to NOT make money! A wonderful catch-22. I was on my way to being a stroked out charity case in a public facility.

PCIP insurance will cover you IMMEDIATELY for any condition, and the insurance only requires you to A: Not have had insurance for six months and B: be charged extra or unable to get insurance because of health reasons. It was an amazing application, with four questions (Are you a citizen? What is your age and address? Have you been turned down or charged extra because of a health condition?) It took a month, and then I had insurance in 11/10.

It is not a freebie, I pay $560/mo at age 59 (if you are 19-30, it is about $200/mo), and you have an annual deductible of $1500, but ONLY an out-of pocket of $2500 TOTAL each year! This includes advanced prescription coverage and the expensive stuff, with NO POLICY LIMIT!

It is (after the annual deductible) 100% covering my CPAP machine and equipment, my testosterone creme, my pacemaker (everything covered including my home monitoring machine), my $1000/mo (retail) in drugs, much more. It is a PPO, go to any doctor in the big network, no reference needed for specialists, it pays for prosthesis, and more.

If you or someone you know has a current or previous medical condition, and can find a way to pay the premium, they will be infinitely better off with PCIP instead of Medicaid, Medicare, or really any other policy I have had since my union days 30 years ago. I sold insurance for some years, and it is amazing.

Got to http://www.pcip.ca.gov/Costs/ for California, or to https://www.pcip.gov/ for other states (any state that is not doing their own PCIP the feds do it).

BTW, I got my pacemaker Mar 3, and my ejection fraction is now 35%, I am able to work well, and every part of my health is improving! And I can work longer and make more money! The $250,000 in pointless hospitalization was a wasted societal cost, a cost that is happening every day everywhere as sick people go to the ER to get quick care but not REAL medical care.

[PrestonSturges]

As I was saying in another thread, the GOP plan (gut medicare, cancel Obama's health care reform) is literally a death sentence for tens of thousands of people, and will send tens of thousands more into disability.

There is a strong "blame the victim" mentality on both the far left and the far right. The far left thinks that if you're vegan or something you live forever, while the far right you are supposed to pray harder so being sick must mean you have been bad (see the Book of Job where God himself comes down to slap "Job's comforters").

I guess people can't deal with the thought of their own eventual illness and death, so their response to sickness is to dehumanize and blame the victim.