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Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

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Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 13:32:52

Gov. Christie pushes pilot program that would privatize public schools

TRENTON — He called it a pilot program, an “experiment,” a restoration of hope.

It was also – for better or worse – an historic moment.

Gov. Chris Christie proposed Thursday that private companies play an unprecedented role in public education, managing some schools and creating others from the ashes of dysfunctional ones.

The governor said the state would launch its experiment in five chronically failing schools where students are hopelessly mired in traditional approaches to education that have utterly collapsed.

“This pilot program will provide an innovative alternative for those children who need it most, bolstering our efforts to ensure opportunity for every child in our state,” the governor said. “This program will begin to restore hope in communities where failing schools deny children hope and opportunity.”

Districts wanting to participate in the five-year program would have to apply. If selected, they could either allow a private company to come in and manage a failing school or authorize a company to launch a new school.
http://www.nj.com/salem/index.ssf/2011/06/gov_christie_pushes_pilot_prog.html


I'm usually to the left on most issues, but I actually think this is a good idea. Yes, it screws over every single public school employee. But what's more important here, the quality of education or the quality of life for school system bureaucrats? Yes, government jobs are sweet and yes by comparison working for a corporation sucks for most workers. But maybe it's time a lot of government workers just have to deal with that the way everyone else has to.

To be clear, I'm not for privatization in safety related areas like fire departments and water utilities. Water especially; the private companies cut corners on maintenance, the water is less safe to drink, and that's just not acceptable.

But with schools I think this would work. Corporations are results-oriented. If you hire a corporation to run a school and tell them their fee is dependent on how well they educate those kids, then they're going to figure out a way to get it done. That's the profit motive at work, it's very different from how government workers operate. Think about the difference between interacting with a private business and your local DMV -- try complaining about customer service at the DMV, you'll get laughed right out of there or even arrested.

Government workers feel entitled, above those they're supposed to be serving, untouchable, and they're harder to fire. Ergo you just can't get the same kind of performance out of them as workers who can be easily fired.

It's a thought and may be worth a pilot program try. Hire a corporation to run a school, and clearly tie their profit to results.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Cloud9 » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 13:41:46

I’m a National Board Certified Teacher with a Master’s degree and thirty years experience. I would love to teach in Governor Christie’s school. But be ready. The moment your kid stops working in my class is the moment he is out of my class.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 13:58:09

Cloud9 wrote:The moment your kid stops working in my class is the moment he is out of my class.


See, that's what I'm talking about. That's a superior attitude there.. a privatized school would have a completely different outlook. Think of it in terms of any other private business. What if we were talking about a retail business that interacts with customers and you just said:

"I'd love to work in a privatized business, but the moment the customer stops doing what I want them to they have to get out of my store."

With all due respect, your outlook is the opposite of private business that interacts with customers. In a corporate for-profit school, you the teacher would be a failure if you're losing kids left and right. That's letting money walk out the door, you couldn't just tell your boss "hey the kid wouldn't work, we don't need his business." Your boss would turn right around and say YES the company DOES need and want that kid's business and if you lose any more customers you're going to be let go.

I don't mean to sound harsh here, I'm sure personally you're an excellent teacher. My point is that there's a radically different attitude between how public sector workers think about their customers (the public) and how private employees are forced to think about their customers. Bottom line, in private business you never let money walk right out the door and blame the customer for it. That gets you fired.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Sys1 » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 14:19:29

I'm an elementary school teacher in France and I witnessed recently that parents are more and more hatefull regarding the education system. They think we have (teachers) lot of privileges (then why don't they do the same job instead of whinning?) and their childrens deserve a medal price for each of their actions. Since Sarkozy has the power, the education politic basically consists in canceling one out of two jobs in education for each retirement.
Many french classrooms now reach something like 33 childrens, and childrens of today are more inclined to tchat, insult or fight than 30 years ago....
So, working conditions are becoming tough, especially for teachers working in suburbs filled with jobless people. I for my part plan to change job in the two coming years, even if we are in the middle of a global economic crash. Opportunities are fading away, the future won't be rosy.
French parents are enough crazy to believe the private education is better than public one because teachers are more serious and not always on strike. Actually, the reason is very different. In public schools, we are not allowed to exclude a children who insult or spit at the teacher. We just have to deal with him/her... and his/her parents. In private schools, you inspect carrefully the history of a children before accepting him. In case he plays the fool, he's automatically put out of the school. Private schools deal with the childrens having no problems in order to boost artificially their results. Public schools accept black childrens speaking a foreign language, alcoholic families, lazy childrens and so on... Everyone has a chance in a public school.

Now why do they want to privatize the system? It's pretty simple :
1) Less money to spend for the government (schools more expensive than bailouts?). More to spend in weapons to kill some terrorists sitting next to a pipeline.
2) Americans love capitalism. You can even find jobless people on food stamps enough dumb to love the system... So why not telling them it's great to kill the education system? Then educated people will be rich people. You don't have money, you won't have education. Just like decades ago.

If selected, they could either allow a private company to come in and manage a failing school or authorize a company to launch a new school.

Wow, that's great! When this private company will fail next year because of say the exponential American debt and peak oil, I guess that parents will be fine when seeing school gate closed in the morning with an inscription like :
"Your school is not enough efficient and has been closed for that by investissors. We are sorry for the inconvenient."
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 16:35:29

Sixstrings wrote:
Cloud9 wrote:The moment your kid stops working in my class is the moment he is out of my class.

See, that's what I'm talking about. That's a superior attitude there.. a privatized school would have a completely different outlook. Think of it in terms of any other private business. What if we were talking about a retail business that interacts with customers and you just said: "I'd love to work in a privatized business, but the moment the customer stops doing what I want them to they have to get out of my store."
I don't mean to sound harsh here, I'm sure personally you're an excellent teacher. My point is that there's a radically different attitude between how public sector workers think about their customers (the public) and how private employees are forced to think about their customers. Bottom line, in private business you never let money walk right out the door and blame the customer for it. That gets you fired.

Except the whole idea of running a school ike a business is the problem. It's not a for-profit business; it's a school. The two aren't the same. KIds are students, not clients.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 17:24:12

Sixstrings wrote:I'm usually to the left on most issues, but I actually think this is a good idea. Yes, it screws over every single public school employee. But what's more important here, the quality of education or the quality of life for school system bureaucrats? Yes, government jobs are sweet and yes by comparison working for a corporation sucks for most workers. But maybe it's time a lot of government workers just have to deal with that the way everyone else has to.

Cushy government jobs are the top priority for liberals. Forget the kids.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 17:27:44, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed a word. Poster notified.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 17:33:26

Home schooling is the answer.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 17:44:21

Sixstrings wrote:
Cloud9 wrote:See, that's what I'm talking about. That's a superior attitude there.. a privatized school would have a completely different outlook. Think of it in terms of any other private business. What if we were talking about a retail business that interacts with customers and you just said:


Why should lazy children be tolerated? They disrupt the class and demoralize the other kids who want to learn.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 17:57:01

Maybe they are NOT the robots? :)
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 18:03:22

HHhmmm.. I wonder if, in the proverbial long run, the schools would stay "academic," or slowly turn to trade schools?
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 18:33:51

How about learning to take care of the Planet and to live in sustainable ways, 7 generations out? :)
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby bratticus » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 18:42:56

How about a course on wilderness survival?

Chinese Bomb Blast Adds to Unrest
By JEREMY PAGE in Beijing and JAMES T. AREDDY in Shanghai / WSJ / June 12, 2011


A man seeking "revenge on society" set off at least one bomb outside a local government headquarters in northeastern China, state media reported, the latest in a spate of violent incidents that highlight growing public anger at official corruption and abuse of power.

The blast, in the port city of Tianjin, slightly injured two people, the state-run Xinhua news agency said. It was the third explosion at government facilities over the last three weeks. Police have also faced violent unrest among migrant street vendors in one southern Chinese city and among residents of another city in central China in the last few days.


TABLE-China power shortage forecasts by region
Reuters / June 2, 2011


BEIJING, June 2 (Reuters) - China appears to be heading for its worst power shortage since 2004, putting pressure on already squeezed industries and raising the possibility that the world's second-largest economy will turn into a net importer of diesel.

Central, southern, southwestern and eastern provinces have introduced power use restrictions and rationing since late March, well ahead of the peak demand season in summer, stoking worries that shortages could worsen and spread to more regions.

Following are details on summer power shortage forecasts, expected maximum loads, supply capacity in each region, as reported by local grid operators, local governments or official media.

... skip ...

Total [deficits] 44.85-49.85 [Gigawatts]
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 18:44:16

Join the Boy Scouts....
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 19:42:54

Oneaboveall wrote:
Sixstrings wrote:
Cloud9 wrote:The moment your kid stops working in my class is the moment he is out of my class.

See, that's what I'm talking about. That's a superior attitude there.. a privatized school would have a completely different outlook. Think of it in terms of any other private business. What if we were talking about a retail business that interacts with customers and you just said: "I'd love to work in a privatized business, but the moment the customer stops doing what I want them to they have to get out of my store."
I don't mean to sound harsh here, I'm sure personally you're an excellent teacher. My point is that there's a radically different attitude between how public sector workers think about their customers (the public) and how private employees are forced to think about their customers. Bottom line, in private business you never let money walk right out the door and blame the customer for it. That gets you fired.

Except the whole idea of running a school ike a business is the problem. It's not a for-profit business; it's a school. The two aren't the same. KIds are students, not clients.

And the local school is likely to have a monopoly or the student will have essentially no bargaining power. Plus the privatized school will be extremely politicized at the local level, probably full of ideological weirdness, corrupt, and just a way to suck money out of the community and pass it under the table to the politicians that hand out private contracts.
Last edited by PrestonSturges on Sun 12 Jun 2011, 20:49:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 19:45:55

privatize schools = Just another way for corporations to suck money off uncle sugar. :lol:
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 21:45:19

From the conversation here you would think voluntary schools (as opposed to the compulsive government schools) were a pure hypothetical. All the best schools are voluntary: Harvard, Yale, MIT, Caltech, Princeton.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 21:48:43

If school districts/governments wanted to allow privatized schools, what would be the financial incentive? This is America, after all, and TANSTAAFL.
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 22:02:06

I don't really understand what the whole fuss is about. Look at any test that is supposed to get you
"made": LSAT, MCAT, GMAT, DAT, PCAT, etc. There is nothing, NOTHING that cannot be learned with a book and a bit of an ass patience. So what exactly a student is supposed to be doing for 17 years? (1+12+4), at $900-1000+ per month? What?
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Pretorian » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 22:10:15

That is over $326 000 btw, at a modest 5% interest ( considering your college tuition also to be $12k per year). That is way more than enough to retire in 90% of the world's surface. So?
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Re: Chris Christie wants to privatize schools

Unread postby Sixstrings » Sun 12 Jun 2011, 22:55:47

PrestonSturges wrote:Plus the privatized school will be extremely politicized at the local level, probably full of ideological weirdness, corrupt, and just a way to suck money out of the community and pass it under the table to the politicians that hand out private contracts.


A private business isn't inherently evil. They're just motivated by profit. If you combine this profit motive with competition and consumer choice, then you wind up with innovation, efficiency, and a superior product.

Whereas a typical public school system is a monopoly, with guaranteed funding at that. There's no pressure for efficiency, no pressure to achieve results, no pressure to ever innovate.

Now compare that to a private business that has to compete, retain / attract customers, and make a profit.

Anyhow, New Jersey ought to try it.. take a few really bad schools as a test case and turn them over to for-profit companies and see what happens.
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