[evilgenius]

Yeah, but I think that empowerment of women will stop runaway populations. Especially anything that empowers their personal sovereignty, such that they are the one who makes the ultimate decision as to whether she will have a child.

I mean, aside from the obvious rights issue, things like micro-loans, so that they can buy an animal. They can sell it for more than they had to borrow. When they can see it working out, they will know the family can make it with her having one or two fewer children. Eventually, the singing violin says, it will come down to replacement, maybe even, like in Europe, fall below that.

If we do our jobs right, we can structure the loans not to punish the women back into slavery if their propositions didn't work out. We could mimic the tool of bankruptcy, which the West does use to this same effect, for them, such that they don't have to go through that.

A tool, basically, meant to give pause. Active people are sometimes simply active. They don't always engage in their own lives to wonder what makes them up. They don't, for instance, wonder why they keep making the same mistakes. So, we pass things down between generations, when we don't have to. We just tend to think that if we are going nowhere, we should be going nowhere fast, like from some song.

In this case, it is to make her realize that too many women might be into the same gig. It might be time for her to try something else? I wonder if apps couldn't easily be made to help them segue like that, so that they can see the opportunities that, otherwise, would get away? Because not everything is obvious, and if we can help with that then we can take away a load that alone used to derail a lot of women in that position, that of where to put their money other than where everybody else is putting their money. Maybe the bank, but endeavor pays so much more?

I mean, imagine what it must be like for a woman in such a situation where she finally has enough micro-credit to buy a cart where a cart makes all the difference? Further imagine what it must be like for her when she can use her credit to buy another cart, so that she can help some other woman out who doesn't have enough credit in some arrangement? In some parts of the world it's already happening. It must be amazing.

[Newfie]

So much for learning from past mistakes.

[Tanada]

So much for learning from past mistakes.

Human nature, history doesn't repeat so much as cycle through the pattern of human response to stimulus.

[theluckycountry]

[quote="theluckycountry]

Simply cutting back on water usage won't be enough. So much is used for farming and sanitary purposes that when the dams and aquifers fail the major cities will have to be abandoned. Unless of course you use the last of the resources to build a string of nuclear stations to desalinate the ocean.[/quote]
You talk as if water is a finite resource ,once it is used it is gone. In reality water is used then discharged or evaporated back into the environment through rivers and oceans... [/quote]

The problem is not that it falls back, but WHERE it falls back. When old civilizations die out because of droughts and the the people migrate, they go to areas where there is water. As far as these big dams in the US are concerned water is a finite resource, if not then all that water taken to irrigate the farms would have evaporated back into the atmosphere and rained back over the catchment, refilling them. But it hasn't has it. The dams are drying up.

Someone suggested above that we desalinate the ocean, such a delusional idea when we can't even afford to repair bridges and roads anymore. But that person has a job in said industry, so their opinion is based on the fact that they would really like to see the industry go forward in leaps and bounds so they can get promoted and retire rich. A lot of what is discussed here is pure hypothetical dreams. Sure it looks good on paper, once you ignore the fact that we are running out of oil.

If I was a member of the Elite class, managing the western world's affairs, I am sure I'd do just as they are doing right now. Feathering my own nest with total disregard for the millions of little people who will suffer when things like the dams go offline. That is how the world works and always has been, and any modern ideas of egalitarianism are chuckled at in places like Davos.

[evilgenius]

[quote="theluckycountry]

Simply cutting back on water usage won't be enough. So much is used for farming and sanitary purposes that when the dams and aquifers fail the major cities will have to be abandoned. Unless of course you use the last of the resources to build a string of nuclear stations to desalinate the ocean.[/quote]
You talk as if water is a finite resource ,once it is used it is gone. In reality water is used then discharged or evaporated back into the environment through rivers and oceans... [/quote][/quote]

The problem is not that it falls back, but WHERE it falls back. When old civilizations die out because of droughts and the the people migrate, they go to areas where there is water. As far as these big dams in the US are concerned water is a finite resource, if not then all that water taken to irrigate the farms would have evaporated back into the atmosphere and rained back over the catchment, refilling them. But it hasn't has it. The dams are drying up.

Someone suggested above that we desalinate the ocean, such a delusional idea when we can't even afford to repair bridges and roads anymore. But that person has a job in said industry, so their opinion is based on the fact that they would really like to see the industry go forward in leaps and bounds so they can get promoted and retire rich. A lot of what is discussed here is pure hypothetical dreams. Sure it looks good on paper, once you ignore the fact that we are running out of oil.

If I was a member of the Elite class, managing the western world's affairs, I am sure I'd do just as they are doing right now. Feathering my own nest with total disregard for the millions of little people who will suffer when things like the dams go offline. That is how the world works and always has been, and any modern ideas of egalitarianism are chuckled at in places like Davos.[/quote]

Let's unpack this. Desalinization is a bad idea because you say so. It's too expensive, I guess. Well, there is probably a price for everything.

Since I think LA should use the ocean, I must be the person who only wants it to work because I want to get rich? Hmmm. I like the idea of people succeeding, not just me. I like that idea because it could work for everybody. I don't stack other people success only on top of mine. I'm not exclusive like that. What I said wasn't said because of a me first attitude, like to promote an idea so that I could get rich. It's more about noticing what's going on in the world.

[vtsnowedin]

People need water. In fact they have to have at least a minimum amount of it to survive. So it comes down to how to get that water at the lowest cost per gallon. If the cost is high people will stop wasting it on lawns etc. and it will get down to only paying for what they actually need. As the present systems fail to deliver that needed amount new systems will be put in place to fill the gap. Perhaps it will be sea water desalination using one power source or another. Perhaps it will be recycling waste water. Or something else I have not considered to date.
What I do not see is people moving away just because of a lack of water or a high price for the water they need. The market will make a demand and it will be met with a solution or product.

[evilgenius]

I am saying that this can be worked out, but not as is. All sorts of issues have to be solved. LA can't expect to get what it thought it would from the Colorado. But if LA isn't going to, then who is?

Because if LA cuts back on Colorado River water that doesn't mean that Phoenix necessarily gets the water. Or that some farmers somewhere do. Do we apportion things according to emergency? Does whoever looks like they are dying first get the water?

Maybe whoever is in need does get the water, under certain situations. I think you can say that you will lend humanitarian aid without setting a sharing precedent. Society might do that for all kinds of reasons, but mostly they will because of feelings. It will also give those who didn't make plans about resources some time to adjust, but not necessarily set the game up so that they win over those who had better rights to the water.

Because you have cities like Denver taking water out of the system. Their waste doesn't go back into the system either. It goes the other way from the Continental Divide.

In the past, I've advocated for a nationwide water transport system. Everybody thinks it's too expensive. I still think we have to do it.

[vtsnowedin]

I am saying that this can be worked out, but not as is. All sorts of issues have to be solved. LA can't expect to get what it thought it would from the Colorado. But if LA isn't going to, then who is?

.

Nobody gets the water. It does not exist for anyone to divide it up.
One possibility is that if there is a say a thirty percent shortfall from what had been estimated when the agreements were first made that all of the recipients take a thirty percent cut to balance supply to withdrawals. What each user does to replace the loss will be up to them. Farmers can irrigate less acres. cities can build desalination plants etc.

[Newfie]

I am skeptical but here it is, cheap water from the air.
https://newatlas.com/materials/drinking ... -gel-film/

[Tanada]

I am skeptical but here it is, cheap water from the air.
https://newatlas.com/materials/drinking ... -gel-film/

If it actually works as claimed ans is as inexpensive as they make it sound this could be a real game changer. Spread a layer of the stuff on a Phoenix AZ vegetable garden with tiny holed where the seeds are located. During the day the intense solar heating releases water down into the top of the soil where the plant roots pick it up immediately because it is in growing phase, then at night while the vegetables are dormant the film absorbs water from the cool air in the breeze blowing through the suburb and recharges the material with fresh water for the next day sunlight to release. No doubt being all natural after a week or month the soil bacteria will break it down but with it being so cheap spraying another layer on as the old one decays should be cheap enough to keep your garden watered all season without using a drop of tap water in the process.

[Newfie]

Tanda,
Yes, could he wonderful.
I will believe it when I see it working on a commercial scale.

I dead Easter Islanders did something similar, but they used to plant a plant next to a biggr rick so the rock would condense some water onto the seedling.

[Tanada]

Tanda,
Yes, could he wonderful.
I will believe it when I see it working on a commercial scale.

I dead Easter Islanders did something similar, but they used to plant a plant next to a biggr rick so the rock would condense some water onto the seedling.

The process is called "Lithic Mulching" and basically involves putting field stones in a pattern all across your crop growing area. The rocks serve several purposes, they collect dew on cool nights which then drains into the soil, they prevent weeds from growing on the area where they are located protecting soil nutrients and they also act to reduce the bare soil exposure to sun and wind which dries it out faster after light rain showers. The patterned rocks create a kind of thin still air layer just above the soil reducing evaporation.

Lithic Mulching

[Newfie]

The herd stirs.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/21/us/lake- ... index.html

[Newfie]

Lake Mosel at a record low due to draugt.

https://www.newsweek.com/archaeologists ... er-1711827

[JuanP]

"A massive rockfall crashed down on Lake Powell. Record-low water levels from drought could be to blame"
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/lake- ... t-climate/

Ironically, the drought and low water levels in Lake Powell may be causing landslides which, together with ongoing unavoidable sedimentation, further diminish its storage capacity. Yet one more unexpected consequence of Global Warming and Climate Change!

[vtsnowedin]

Sedimentation is just dirt or topsoil if you prefer. It can be dredged out and transported up hill back where it came from when needed.
This argument about the sedimentation making these reservoirs unusable is a complete crock of $#!*.

[evilgenius]

Sedimentation is just dirt or topsoil if you prefer. It can be dredged out and transported up hill back where it came from when needed.
This argument about the sedimentation making these reservoirs unusable is a complete crock of $#!*.

And you would think that sediment would help make the basis of soil. It is broken up enough. It could be added to other dirt and made to be part of a scheme. It isn't like the sediment has to be brought back to where it came from. It only has to be placed on the canyon rim. Up there, anything can be done with it.

[Newfie]

More than I ever wanted to know.

https://www.hydroreview.com/world-regio ... tion/#gref

[vtsnowedin]

Sedimentation is just dirt or topsoil if you prefer. It can be dredged out and transported up hill back where it came from when needed.
This argument about the sedimentation making these reservoirs unusable is a complete crock of $#!*.

And you would think that sediment would help make the basis of soil. It is broken up enough. It could be added to other dirt and made to be part of a scheme. It isn't like the sediment has to be brought back to where it came from. It only has to be placed on the canyon rim. Up there, anything can be done with it.

Before the Aswan dam was built the sediments in the Nile ended up in the delta as topsoil and were the source of it's fertility. Perhaps the best place to deposit dreggings from behind the dam would be down at the delta.

[JuanP]

More than I ever wanted to know.

https://www.hydroreview.com/world-regio ... tion/#gref

Thanks for that link! You've earned a gold star today!