[C8]

Tanda,
Yes, could he wonderful.
I will believe it when I see it working on a commercial scale.

I dead Easter Islanders did something similar, but they used to plant a plant next to a biggr rick so the rock would condense some water onto the seedling.

The process is called "Lithic Mulching" and basically involves putting field stones in a pattern all across your crop growing area. The rocks serve several purposes, they collect dew on cool nights which then drains into the soil, they prevent weeds from growing on the area where they are located protecting soil nutrients and they also act to reduce the bare soil exposure to sun and wind which dries it out faster after light rain showers. The patterned rocks create a kind of thin still air layer just above the soil reducing evaporation.

Lithic Mulching

Wouldn't the presence of stones make harvesting and the next years' seed sowing difficult?

[Newfie]

This was all hand work. Primitive by our measures.

[JuanP]

Tanda,
Yes, could he wonderful.
I will believe it when I see it working on a commercial scale.

I dead Easter Islanders did something similar, but they used to plant a plant next to a biggr rick so the rock would condense some water onto the seedling.

The process is called "Lithic Mulching" and basically involves putting field stones in a pattern all across your crop growing area. The rocks serve several purposes, they collect dew on cool nights which then drains into the soil, they prevent weeds from growing on the area where they are located protecting soil nutrients and they also act to reduce the bare soil exposure to sun and wind which dries it out faster after light rain showers. The patterned rocks create a kind of thin still air layer just above the soil reducing evaporation.

Lithic Mulching

Wouldn't the presence of stones make harvesting and the next years' seed sowing difficult?

This technique, which is also taught and used in Permaculture Design, is used in small scale regenerative agriculture. It has been popular for centuries in Mediterranean countries to plant fruit trees on hills. It is also used to build raised beds. Combined with other types of mulching it makes for some pretty easy, very low maintenance, almost weed free gardening. We are not talking about large fields worked by tractors here. They also help fight soil erosion and collect rainwater and nutrients. It has been used for centuries on a commercial scale, but is not useful on an industrial scale.

[Newfie]

And yet we live in an industrial scale food world.
Yes it works, but not at today's production level.

[C8]

And yet we live in an industrial scale food world.
Yes it works, but not at today's production level.

I just read a book called Bright Green Lies. It is written by a deep green environmentalist who repeatedly emphasizes that there is no industrial level of green tech that will save the Earth b/c it is the industrial level of production that is the key problem (Bright Green is a term used to refer to environmentalists who back industrial level solutions such as EV's, mass solar, etc. to give the world a bright, but green future)

[Plantagenet]

I just read a book called Bright Green Lies. It is written by a deep green environmentalist who repeatedly emphasizes that there is no industrial level of green tech that will save the Earth b/c it is the industrial level of production that is the key problem (Bright Green is a term used to refer to environmentalists who back industrial level solutions such as EV's, mass solar, etc. to give the world a bright, but green future)

Thanks for the information. This is exactly the kind of thing that I've been thinking about for years. I'm not quite as pessimistic as the book's author because I think there is tech and other things that could help...like using nukes to generate carbon-free electric power and enacting a carbon tax to reduce carbon emissions......but I still think we're on our way to climate doom because I don't see the TPTB doing any of the things that would actually solve the problem.

I just checked and there is a movie on YOUTUBE called "Bright Green Lies"

movie on YOUTUBE called "Bright Green Lies"

I haven't watched it yet but it looks like it has interviews with the book's author and others discussing problems with the "bright green" movement.

Much of the bright green movement talk we hear is just "Greenwashing." For instance, the enthusiasm over EVs is mostly wasted energy, because building EVs releases much MORE CO2 then building ICE cars and running EVs on coal-fired electrical plants is also a climate disaster. On the political side the Paris Climate Accords just sounds like nonsense to me, because nowhere in the Paris accords is there any binding language that would actually mandate reductions in CO2 emissions......and sure enough, just as I've been predicting since the Paris Accords were ratified in 2015, CO2 emissions just keep rising and Greenhouse gas levels in the atmosphere have gone up, up and UP since the Paris Accords were ratified and climate change is getting worse and worse.


IMHO the "bright green" movement is mostly just greenwashing......

Cheers!

[vtsnowedin]

And yet we live in an industrial scale food world.
Yes it works, but not at today's production level.

I just read a book called Bright Green Lies. It is written by a deep green environmentalist who repeatedly emphasizes that there is no industrial level of green tech that will save the Earth b/c it is the industrial level of production that is the key problem (Bright Green is a term used to refer to environmentalists who back industrial level solutions such as EV's, mass solar, etc. to give the world a bright, but green future)

The problem is that a lot of the Green tech. does not add up to enough food or other resources to feed the existing worlds population. That makes their plans non starters as no one can decide which four or five billion have to remove themselves from the planet to save the species.
Show us a plan? Can it feed eight billion people? If not seek a better plan.

[Newfie]

VT,

There is a terrible conundrum here.

We are headed for a significant population drop.

Do we plan for that?

Or do we just let it happen?

Either path encounters some very difficult moral questions.

It strikes me hard that we are not planning and watching will happen will happen is the rule of the day. Not my style. But pretty inevitable.

2cents.

[C8]

VT,

There is a terrible conundrum here.

We are headed for a significant population drop.

Do we plan for that?

Or do we just let it happen?

Either path encounters some very difficult moral questions.

It strikes me hard that we are not planning and watching will happen will happen is the rule of the day. Not my style. But pretty inevitable.

2cents.

My guess is that the richer nations will eat while the poorer ones starve- seems to be what happened in the past. We will probably get a preview of this soon as food prices keep rising. Given future population growth projections in Africa (some say it will be half of world pop by 2100) my guess is that this century will see the greatest loss of life in human history- much of it from that continent.

[JuanP]

My guess is that the richer nations will eat while the poorer ones starve- seems to be what happened in the past. We will probably get a preview of this soon as food prices keep rising. Given future population growth projections in Africa (some say it will be half of world pop by 2100) my guess is that this century will see the greatest loss of life in human history- much of it from that continent.

Richer PEOPLE will eat, and poorer PEOPLE will starve. Same as it ever was!

[vtsnowedin]

VT,

There is a terrible conundrum here.

We are headed for a significant population drop.

Do we plan for that?

Or do we just let it happen?

Either path encounters some very difficult moral questions.

It strikes me hard that we are not planning and watching will happen will happen is the rule of the day. Not my style. But pretty inevitable.

2cents.

I am a bit more optimistic on that then you are. I see these green new deal ideas being seen for what they are and getting kicked to the curb or under the bus.
Then I see birth rates worldwide declining be educating females and making birth control available to every female of childbearing age. I expect it will get to 1.5 per woman which is less then the replacement rate. It will take a while but I expect a population peak then a slow decline by mid century and I think we can manage to keep most of the population decently fed and living at a standard higher then many endure today.
The citizens of Russia might not be in that group to tie in another thread.

[C8]

VT,

There is a terrible conundrum here.

We are headed for a significant population drop.

Do we plan for that?

Or do we just let it happen?

Either path encounters some very difficult moral questions.

It strikes me hard that we are not planning and watching will happen will happen is the rule of the day. Not my style. But pretty inevitable.

2cents.

I am a bit more optimistic on that then you are. I see these green new deal ideas being seen for what they are and getting kicked to the curb or under the bus.
Then I see birth rates worldwide declining be educating females and making birth control available to every female of childbearing age. I expect it will get to 1.5 per woman which is less then the replacement rate. It will take a while but I expect a population peak then a slow decline by mid century and I think we can manage to keep most of the population decently fed and living at a standard higher then many endure today.
The citizens of Russia might not be in that group to tie in another thread.

I hope that you are right, but everything I am reading is saying that Africa is defying the demographic transition expected by researchers- it's population keeps exploding even though it is becoming less rural and the standard of living is increasing. I don't think the behavior of past nations with regard to birthrate change is an iron law that has to be followed by all future nations. Africa is deeply religious and all the religions there seem to command for more children.

It is an issue that nobody will touch- the right is against birth control/abortion for religious reasons and the left sees pushing for birth control among Africans as racist. It is the great ignored crisis of our time and could lead to mass starvation down the road.

[vtsnowedin]

I hope that you are right, but everything I am reading is saying that Africa is defying the demographic transition expected by researchers- it's population keeps exploding even though it is becoming less rural and the standard of living is increasing. I don't think the behavior of past nations with regard to birthrate change is an iron law that has to be followed by all future nations. Africa is deeply religious and all the religions there seem to command for more children.

It is an issue that nobody will touch- the right is against birth control/abortion for religious reasons and the left sees pushing for birth control among Africans as racist. It is the great ignored crisis of our time and could lead to mass starvation down the road.

Yes Africa has all the problems you point out. Perhaps they will reduce their population through wars instead of education and birth control. That is a sad possibility but I know of no way to persuade them to a better path.

[Newfie]

More likely they will just move North.

[vtsnowedin]

More likely they will just move North.

That will end badly.

[C8]

More likely they will just move North.

Western nations give food aid without any requirements for birth control- Europe is growing the masses that will invade it. But then I understand 7 times more profit, in resources, is extracted by outsiders from Africa each year than it receives in aid. So really this is a cash distribution upwards to wealthy companies and the elite ruling class within Africa- the average people will have to deal with famine and invasions.

[vtsnowedin]

More likely they will just move North.

Western nations give food aid without any requirements for birth control- Europe is growing the masses that will invade it. But then I understand 7 times more profit, in resources, is extracted by outsiders from Africa each year than it receives in aid. So really this is a cash distribution upwards to wealthy companies and the elite ruling class within Africa- the average people will have to deal with famine and invasions.

Western Nations give food aid from their surpluses. If those surpluses dry up as they appear to be doing in Ukraine this year that aid flow will stop. If there is no surplus in the North there is no point in moving North as those there will have no excess to feed another mouth.
Truly closed borders with those trying to slip through being shot dead will become the norm.
That is a harsh thing to say but if your country has not enough food to feed itself you will not let others in to share what is just not there to share.

[theluckycountry]

VT,

There is a terrible conundrum here.

We are headed for a significant population drop.

Yeah well not yet. The vid 2/3 of the way down this page is a good wrap up on the lake and what's happened over the multi decade drought.

Wed June 1, 2022
https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/us/lake- ... index.html

At around 26% full, Lake Powell is at its lowest level since 1963, when the lake's Glen Canyon Dam was built and the reservoir -- near the Utah-Arizona border -- was filled.
Lake Powell currently sits 29 feet lower than it did on Memorial Day weekend last year, and nearly 75 feet lower than the same weekend in 2020.