[Cog]

A little interactive toy from Bloomberg that shows just how out of balance the federal budget is. I did manage to balance the budget without cutting social security and medicare but a whole lot of federal workers and military contractors will be singing the blues.

Unless progressives agree with Dick Cheney that deficits don't matter. The little program is quite revealing just in how big a hole we have created for ourselves.By the way, it also shows that Obama is lying about the SS checks not going out even if the debt ceiling isn't raised.


Here is the tool you will need.

http://about.bgov.com/2011/07/12/august ... d-choices/

[EOTWAWKI]

Where is the option to raise taxes on corporations and the wealthy? You are only seeing half the picture if you think that the budget can only be balanced by cutting spending.

[Cog]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

[Sixstrings]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

Ok I'll channel my inner Republican and play along:

42 billion, "other spending" -- the description says Treasury "can't identify" where this spending goes to. If nobody can tell me what it's for let's cut it.

1 billion, agency for international development -- screw that, let 'em develop themselves we're broke

8.1 billion, "health and human services grants" -- we can't gut Medicare or Medicaid, if something must go then it should be these extra "grants"

1.3 billion, federal transit administration

1.3 billion, Labor Department

1.7 billion, general services administration

4.5 billion, federal highway administration

6.7 billion, HUD

20.2 billion, Dept. of Education (these are all grants and student loan guarantees.. if it's an emergency and something must go, then the grants gotta go)

.3 billion, small business administration -- honestly this is a silly department anyway it's gotta go

14.2 billion, federal salaries and benefits -- holy cow this is a big one, we have this many people working for the federal gov? In an emergency, cut it to 0 and have the army hand out food and basic healthcare to government workers until the crisis is over. Can't keep this at 0 long, so there'd have to be big layoffs and at least 50% pay cut across the board.. $14 billion is a lot, consider active duty service pay only adds up to $2.9 billion.

2.2 billion, temporary assistance for needy families -- in an emergency all we can afford to keep is food stamps and Medicaid.. these extra grants have to go

31.7 billion, defense vendor payments -- screw KBR and Haliburton, withdraw from wars if we're overextended

So my cuts leave $135.2 billion in spending, which is a $1.2 billion surplus.

EDIT: My math was off, this is actually a $37 billion surprlus

[EOTWAWKI]

And where is the option to raise taxes on all goods manufactured in other countries so that they cost the same as if they were manufactured at home? As most of the US major trading partners do?

And another option to cut off all subsidies to US corporations that have moved their headquarters overseas to avoid paying taxes?

And another option for true universal single payer health care which would a lot of the problems of small businesses?

Where is the option to cease all subsidies to American farmers not to grow food or to grow food to turn into fuel? (You should like that one.)

And where is the option to return government regulatory departments to actually regulating instead of promoting corporate misdeeds?

And finally, where is the option to slash the military to the size necessary for self defense only instead of it being larger than every other military in the world combined?

Do all of that and you will have a budget surplus and full employment and a healthy population.

But all you can think of is cutting food and healthcare and education from poor people????

[Pretorian]

Not sure if I can be considered to be a progressive, but I came up with almost 22 billion in savings, without affecting creditors, old farts or the military ( though I'm sure they are stealing a better half of those 31.6 billion)

[Sixstrings]

Not sure if I can be considered to be a progressive, but I came up with almost 22 billion in savings, without affecting creditors, old farts or the military ( though I'm sure they are stealing a better half of those 31.6 billion)

You mean surplus or savings? To get to balance you have to cut $134 billion.

This isn't a good budget cutting app.. too simplistic to just say all or nothing. Like Energy Dept for example.. a lot could be cut, but you can't touch the part that handles nuke plants and nuke waste.

Other than defense, bottom line on all this is that real problem is medical costs have to come down so Medicare isn't so expensive.

Also, there's a lot of bureaucratic fat in the federal government.. far too many grants, too many non-profits funded. It's bureaucratic bloat, but neither party will touch that or Defense -- they have it out for Social Security and Medicare.

[Pretorian]

Surplus of course. And common, I left EPA and NASA fat and happy as they are now, and in case anybody else on the federal level is doing something valuable, these 2 can fire a few useless employees ( which I'm sure they have aplenty) and hire those. So you see, if everything goes as it is, in 53 years or so USA will be debt-free!

[Pretorian]

So yeah, there is a lot of fraud and overspending in Medicare and military contracts. I figure it can be cut by about 40 billion a month between these to, so it will be 62 billion of surplus a month. So imagine this... Uncle Sam will be saving 190 bucks a month for every American , legal and illegal immigrant. We'll be debt-free in no time. Like 20 years or so.

[Pretorian]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

How about cutting spending drastically AND raising taxes on both corps and pigs that got a bit too fat. Do we have a deal?

[EOTWAWKI]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

No, it is a taxing problem and the recent problem started with the George Bush administration giving tax breaks to it's wealthy backers while continuing to spend so that it wouldn't piss off the voters. 8 years of that and 5 trillion dollars had been added to the total debt. AND STILL! Republicans refuse to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

Still trying to repeal the New Deal are you? Still trying to drive the country into bankruptcy so that it has no choice but to end all social spending? End all tax payer funded education and health care and old age pensions and housing. Finally you will have your conservative paradise where a few have everything and the majority have nothing.

[careinke]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

No, it is a taxing problem and the recent problem started with the George Bush administration giving tax breaks to it's wealthy backers while continuing to spend so that it wouldn't piss off the voters. 8 years of that and 5 trillion dollars had been added to the total debt. AND STILL! Republicans refuse to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

And to think Obama is going to do the same thing in less than four years! Way to go Dems. How can anybody take those clowns seriously when they couldn't even pass a budget while controlling the Senate, the House, and the Presidency.

Dems have proven they can't govern. The only thing they are capable of is whining and blaming the other guy.

[Cog]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

How about cutting spending drastically AND raising taxes on both corps and pigs that got a bit too fat. Do we have a deal?

Ok as long as cut spending first and raise taxes 10 years from now. I know this reverses the normal way DC thinks but its worth a try.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

How about cutting spending drastically AND raising taxes on both corps and pigs that got a bit too fat. Do we have a deal?

Taxing these pigs is a bit tricky.
They are holding substantial assets.
If taxed, they will have to sell proportion of these assets to pay said tax.
So there is real risk of substantial collapse of asset prices.
If too much shares of GS, JPM, Microsoft, Facebook or Google found their way to Wall Street counters, we will find out pretty fast how much *in reality* these companies are worth.

And what we would find out is in all probabilities *extremely disappointing*.
So disappointing that even Progressives might think twice before they proceed to find out the truth.

[ian807]

You can't have a rational discussion about the budget if military spending is off the table. The biggest welfare program in existence is the US military.

[Cloud9]

We won't steal it. We will pay for it with freshly printed FRNs.

[Oakley]

Ron Paul has made specific proposals to cut federal spending to the bone.

Close all military bases on foreign soil; end all current wars and bring our troops home; means test Social Security and Medicare, and allow young people to opt out (quit paying SS tax or Medicare tax, and get no benefits); close a multitude of departments (agriculture, education, commerce, etc., etc.); end our involvement in international organizations like the UN and the IMF and end foreign aid; end the war on drugs; phase out the Federal Reserve System, and get gold & silver in the hands of people to use as money, and for what is left of the federal government like government salaries, cut across the board to bring into line with private salaries.

When we have huge government like we do now, we have diminished freedom.

[ian807]

You can't have a rational discussion about the budget if military spending is off the table. The biggest welfare program in existence is the US military.

this is no time to close military bases. We have important oil to steal

Sadly, we'll use up oodles of oil trying to get that oil, although to their credit, the military is at least trying to address their petroleum dependence (http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-military-to-cut-oil-consumption-4292/). I have to admit, however, that I think they're unlikely to get very far before the next set of economically induced conflicts.

[Pretorian]

Progressives never think its a spending problem.

How about cutting spending drastically AND raising taxes on both corps and pigs that got a bit too fat. Do we have a deal?

Ok as long as cut spending first and raise taxes 10 years from now. I know this reverses the normal way DC thinks but its worth a try.

What happens 10 years from now? You'll die or retire?