[Cog]

Your country needs sterilizations and condoms a lot more than it does bio-diesel. Cargo cult is irrational thinking when power down is coming at you.

[stephankrasner]

I am concerned. Saddened actually, that we cannot use such a miraculous, and useful resource with more care and conservation. As a soon to be debt-free, college educated 27 year old working on a co-op, I will not be affected as much as a 40 year old office worker with a family of five, a mountain of debt, and completely attached to the system.

I don't think there is a chance in the world of progressive socio-economic change coming from the top down. The only chance we have is change by the power of perception. Change will come in the form of small groups of people who have little or no debt, access to start-up capital and are willing to let go of, or severely cut back the all consuming unsustainable lifestyles we live today. I see these types of communities as reproducible, and something that will be a staple of the center of suburban and urban cities alike for it's cheap food and co-op capacity, as well as a center of trade.

I don't want there to be a crash, but I do want people to feel the pressure and get the right culprit so they can correctly direct their anger and frustration to more productive ends.

[peeker01]

Your country needs sterilizations and condoms a lot more than it does bio-diesel. Cargo cult is irrational thinking when power down is coming at you.

Cog, that is really harsh. We can't impose our zero population growth on all countries of the world. This man is here to talk about bio-diesel, not condoms.

As far as powering down goes, most of India is already powered down. They use 10 percent of what we do. Much of the country cooks on cow dung and carries water by hand. Their potable water is not potable, drink at your own peril.

This is a good exercise for our readers. Take a good look at India and Africa, and tell me you want to live that lifestyle. Sure we could use less, but power down? To what level?

[Bill Hicks]

This is a good exercise for our readers. Take a good look at India and Africa, and tell me you want
to live that lifestyle. Sure we could use less, but power down? To what level?

What we WANT is irrelevant. What reality is going to FORCE upon us is all that matters. What we're going to GET will make us look at today's India with envy in about 20 years.

[peeker01]

I bet you are wrong Bill. Remember all the dire predictions Dr. Paul Ehrlich made back in the 60's? You are starting to sound like him. He sold alot of books, but he was very wrong about the future.

[peeker01]

Is that how you characterize Ehrlich's near total failure as a prognosticator of the future?

From Wiki....
"One frequent criticism focuses on Ehrlich's allegedly alarmist tone and sensational statements. Ehrlich has made a number of statements or "predictions" in a variety of settings that have turned out to be false. Ronald Bailey of Reason Magazine has called him an "irrepressible doomster ... who, as far as I can tell, has never been right in any of his forecasts of imminent catastrophe."[18] On the first Earth Day in 1970, he warned that "[i]n ten years all important animal life in the sea will be extinct. Large areas of coastline will have to be evacuated because of the stench of dead fish."[18] In a 1971 speech, he predicted that: "By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people ... If I were a gambler, I would take even money that England will not exist in the year 2000."[18] When this scenario did not come to pass, he responded that "When you predict the future, you get things wrong. How wrong is another question. I would have lost if I had had taken the bet. However, if you look closely at England, what can I tell you? They're having all kinds of problems, just like everybody else."[18] Ehrlich wrote in The Population Bomb that, "India couldn't possibly feed two hundred million more people by 1980."[13

[Bill Hicks]

I bet you are wrong Bill. Remember all the dire predictions Dr. Paul Ehrlich made back in the 60's? You are starting to sound like him. He sold alot of books, but he was very wrong about the future.

Too bad that when I try to come around to collect on this bet a few years from now the MZBs will likely have already eaten you for dinner.

[peeker01]

I give up.....so does google.....what is an mzb? Marion Zimmer Brown, Mission Bay VORTAC??????

[Bill Hicks]

I give up.....so does google.....what is an mzb? Marion Zimmer Brown, Mission Bay VORTAC??????

Dude...you are on a Peak Oil Site and yet you have NO IDEA what a Mutant Zombie Biker is...and yet you wonder why you get so much crap around here?

[peeker01]

Sorry Bill, never heard of MZB. Does that make me a bad peaker?

[Bill Hicks]

Sorry Bill, never heard of MZB. Does that make me a bad peaker?

It means you have a whole lot to learn before you will be credible challenging what most of us around here accept as the truth.

[peeker01]

Gosh Bill, so everything I read here is the "truth"? I shouldn't post weather charts or stock
market charts or charts depicting global temperature decreases, because there is no need?

[peeker01]

Ehrlick sold his reputation for a few books

[Sixstrings]

Your country needs sterilizations and condoms a lot more than it does bio-diesel. Cargo cult is irrational thinking when power down is coming at you.

Cog, that is really harsh. We can't impose our zero population growth on all countries of the world. This man is here to talk about bio-diesel, not condoms.

Exactly, Peeker.. here's here to talk about bio-diesel, in other words he's spamming for some website (did you see the link he's promoting?).

We do need more Asians on the forum, but isn't it ironic that they're showing up now to SPAM. What's the world coming to, we Americans can't even have Doom for ourselves, even the job of fear-mongering is being offshored to India.

"http://www.mgrbiodiesel.com," indeed.

I'd be happy about Indians joining the forum, but don't come here to sell us something or if you're being paid super low wages to spam for someone.

(mods can his link be removed plz.. if he wants to advertise then he can contact you to buy ad space)

[Outcast_Searcher]

This is a good exercise for our readers. Take a good look at India and Africa, and tell me you want to live that lifestyle. Sure we could use less, but power down? To what level?

That's a good question. It seems to me though, that there is a HELL of a lot of difference between a typical middle class U.S. level (I use the U.S. as I live here and I know we're, as a country, the worst example in the world, per capita, of energy consumption) - and a bare subsistence third world level.

What, IMO, is so unfortunate, is there is, short term, SO little incentive or willingness to even seriously THINK about trying to come up with some sort of compromise energy standard.

This is why I strongly want to see a serious energy tax that would directly impact oil consumption in the U.S. in a meaningful way, like say an additional 5 bucks a gallon, after a fair (say 2 year) warning period to give people time to prepare, AND some kind of energy credit to help everybody cope, especially the poor -- BUT really sock it to them after, say, the first 500 gallons of gasoline or equivilent.

Every time I propose it though, the vast majority of folks, even folks on this site who supposedly recognize we have a real problem -- vigorously oppose it. Too inconvenient. Not politically palatable. Will interfere with my lifestyle, yadda yadda.

As a middle aged single guy who can live without a fancy lifestyle, tons of miles driven, air travel, international travel, etc. -- if I am willing to have (say) a Toyota Plug-in Prius once they become generally available in 2013 and use solar panels on my roof to charge it -- it seems to me my total personal gasoline consumption should go down to something like 100 gallons a year at MOST, and without burdening the electric grid (and coal burning, etc) unduly.
Add to this a willingness to buy very little consumer "crap" considering my income, keep it on the warm side in summer and the cool side in winter, etc. and it adds up, even if it doesn't equate to a 3rd world lifestyle.

You get lots of people thinking that way, and you can make real progress, on average.

But no, it seems to be an insistence on BAU and all or nothing -- well when nothing comes, it's REALLY going to hurt. Maybe we're screwed anyway, but would it be so terrible to TRY some compromise on remediation?

For example, I think the CAFE targets Obama is pushing for that look something like 56 MPG by 2025 (before various political adjustments, like for trucks - sigh), seem like a real strong goal. I just hope politics doesn't defuse 90% of the gain in the mean time.

[peeker01]

Your country needs sterilizations and condoms a lot more than it does bio-diesel. Cargo cult is irrational thinking when power down is coming at you.

Cog, that is really harsh. We can't impose our zero population growth on all countries of the world. This man is here to talk about bio-diesel, not condoms.

Exactly, Peeker.. here's here to talk about bio-diesel, in other words he's spamming for some website (did you see the link he's promoting?).

We do need more Asians on the forum, but isn't it ironic that they're showing up now to SPAM. What's the world coming to, we Americans can't even have Doom for ourselves, even the job of fear-mongering is being offshored to India.

"http://www.mgrbiodiesel.com,"


Strings, Funny post, but since he joined in 2005, I don't think he is a spammer, at least in
the traditional sense of the word. IF you weren't such a shallow american prick, you would
have figured out that not only is he not a spammer, HE"S INDIAN

Indians don't have the time to post about doom.....they are living it.

[Sixstrings]

Peeker, Asia is a continent. In includes China, India, and a lot of other places. India is referred to as "the Indian subcontinent" but it's still on the continent of Asia.

As for spam..

I can smell it a mile away. If he's not a spammer then he'll come back and engage in a discussion. I'll be happy to apologize.

Even so, I don't think posters are allowed to promote their internet businesses on here.

[peeker01]

I still don't think he is a spammer