Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 29 Aug 2011, 20:35:03

Russia plans $65bn tunnel to America

Russia has unveiled an ambitious plan to build the world’s longest tunnel under the Bering Strait as part of a transport corridor linking Europe and America via Siberia and Alaska.

The 64-mile (103km) tunnel would connect the far east of Russia with Alaska
, opening up the prospect of the ultimate rail trip across three quarters of the globe from London to New York. The link would be twice as long as the Channel Tunnel connecting Britain and France.

(snip)

Russian officials insist that the tunnel is an economic idea whose time has now come and that it could be ready within ten years. They argue that it would repay construction costs by stimulating up to 100 million tons of freight traffic each year, as well as supplying oil, gas and electricity from Siberia to the US and Canada.

Maxim Bystrov, deputy head of Russia’s agency for special economic zones, said: “This will be a business project, not a political one.” The tunnel across the international date-line would be built in three sections through two islands in the Bering Strait and would link 6,000km (3,728 miles) of new railway lines. The tunnel alone would cost an estimated $10-12 billion to construct.

The scheme is being championed by Viktor Razbegin, deputy head of industrial research at Russia’s Economic and Trade Development Ministry. He has long advocated a tunnel under the Bering Strait to provide a land route between Russia and the US, and published a feasibility study in the 1990s.

He told journalists that state and commercial companies would form a public-private partnership to fund and run the project. A conference in Moscow next week will propose an inter-governmental agreement with the US to underwrite construction of the transport link in return for a stake in the business.

Russian Railways is said to be examining the construction of a 3,500km route from Pravaya Lena, south of Yakutsk, to Uelen on the Bering Strait. The tunnel would connect this to a 2,000km line from Cape Prince of Wales, in West Alaska, to Fort Nelson, in Canada.

The project could save Siberia and the US $20 billion a year in electricity costs, according to Vasily Zubakin, deputy chief executive of Hydro, a subsidiary of Russia’s main electricity producer, Unified Energy Systems. The company plans to build two giant tidal plants in the Far East to supply tengiga-watts of electricity by 2020.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1680121.ece


Why didn't this make news in the US? Russian government has announced they're building a tunnel to the US and it's not even mentioned here, wtf?

Anyhow.. my Russian friends.. this has to be approved by US authorities you can't just build a tunnel. There will be environmental impact studies, how to handle customs has to be worked out.. etc. Also I'm dubious whether this is possible.. that is some nasty, rough ocean in the Bering Sea. Can they really just "build a tunnel?" Also you really need to build it from both sides, so are the Russians paying for all this? If they want the US to pay half I don't know if this could get through Congress.

If it could be done, it would be great for Alaska and Canada. Alaska is underdeveloped anyway. As for the globalist free trader aspect, I'm more comfortable with closer links to Russia and Europe than South America or China -- these super low wage labor countries are killing us.

Also this is good from a resource perspective, if the US grows at all it'll help having a transit pipeline straight to Siberia. Still.. this is odd.. the Russian government making plans for a tunnel and I never hear peep about it in my own country. And why can't we Americans do big things like this anymore.. I'm happy with infrastructure progress, but it seems like it's the Chinese, Russians, Brazilians etc. who have to do it for us.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 01:01:38

Not exactly MSM but it was on PO.com's news page last week.

http://peakoil.com/generalideas/russia-green-lights-65-billion-siberia-alaska-rail-and-tunnel-to-bridge-the-bering-strait/

Frankly i think it's a "pipe dream" if you'll pardon the pun. I work in the construction industry and if i had a $ for every project that was announced which never came about... well i wouldn't be in the construction industry anymore :-D
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 01:24:30

6,
i wasn't even going to view this thread as i had already read the article last week.
There's two ways we could take this discussion, at least.
BAU: wonderful results that will come about from this fascinating project.
PO: reasons why this stupidity won't ever come about.

As this forum is all about resource depletion i figure the second point of view will be more popular.

It's not that i don't find the idea of a sub-sea transport tunnel interesting (i do, and i'm sure the engineering wouldn't be too challenging) i just can't see anyone finding $65B to build a tunnel from Nowheresville to Nowehereski.
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 01:40:27

papa moose wrote:Not exactly MSM but it was on PO.com's news page last week.


Oh my bad.. was there a thread on it?

Alright can someone say why it's a half-baked idea.. they built the chunnel from England to France so the tech exists. I mentioned rough weather but if you're underground there is no weather.

Does Alaska even have a rail line to the western edge.. from this map it looks like they only have a north south line:

Image

The land rail component alone would be a massive project.

papa moose wrote:It's not that i don't find the idea of a sub-sea transport tunnel interesting (i do, and i'm sure the engineering wouldn't be too challenging) i just can't see anyone finding $65B to build a tunnel from Nowheresville to Nowehereski.


Then again, the canadian tar sands pipeline is real and about ready to start construction, NASA scientist protests notwithstanding. Now this tunnel news comes out.. sounds like somebody is serious about creating a transcontinental energy / oil grid. Oil could be brought in by rail through that tunnel, either from Russia to the US or the other way from Canada into Europe.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 01:46:34

crap, now i'm not going to get any work done today! That's the real reason i minimise my posts :oops:
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 02:00:34

Sixstrings wrote:Then again, the canadian tar sands pipeline is real and about ready to start construction, NASA scientist protests notwithstanding. Now this tunnel news comes out.. sounds like somebody is serious about creating a transcontinental energy / oil grid. Oil could be brought in by rail through that tunnel, either from Russia to the US or the other way from Canada into Europe.


read the article from my link, the tunnel is not just a rail line, they talk about pipelines too.

Perhaps add FSA(Russia) to the NAFTA trade bloc? Is Russia still a major supplier of oil to the US?
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 02:07:40

$65B is a hell of a big can to kick down the road, what is the motive for TPTB to go ahead with this?

Perhaps they recognise that the Alberta - Gulf pipeline will run dry in a few years and this project will dove tail nicley into provide a new supply at that time?

Just pulling stuff out of thin air here 6.

By the way have you come across this Aussie site http://www.crudeoilpeak.com/?
He has stopped blogging and the newest posts went missing but the archive is still there.
His take on public/private enterprises is especially interesting and i think you will find the Aussie angle interesting.
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby ritter » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 11:33:34

I wonder if it has anything to do with this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/business/global/exxon-and-rosneft-partner-in-russian-oil-deal.html

Maybe the Russians are positioning for the end game? Invasion by tunnel! :P
ritter
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri 14 Oct 2005, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby TimH » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 13:24:12

Could several Countries chip in on this project and also use it for commerce? If so I see no reason other than the actual construction being a hindrance to finishing it.

From the Article:

"They argue that it would repay construction costs by stimulating up to 100 million tons of freight traffic each year, as well as supplying oil, gas and electricity from Siberia to the US and Canada"

If you can run high speed rail hauling cargo and maybe even people,how would it pan out for all involved?
TimH
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun 23 Jan 2011, 19:28:12

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby ian807 » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 13:48:35

In a word, "nonsense."

In a few years, they won't have the economic resources to even think of such a project, and neither will we.
User avatar
ian807
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon 03 Nov 2008, 04:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby radon » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 14:36:34

Well, they built the Nord Stream pipeline pretty fast, and its length should be greater than the tunnel to Alaska. Nord Stream is not a tunnel, but anyway.

It may likely be empty noises. If it is not, than it may well be another super-mega-project for private subcontractors to "earn" public money on construction contracts. Nevertheless, this is much better idea than the latest fashion of inviting the Chinese to clear up the Russian Far East for themselves under the justification that the Chinese are ready to offload their precious dollars to build "infrastructure" in Siberia.

It would be useful for Russia if the US had a stake in Siberia. If Europe did, it would be even more useful for Russia. But Europe is busy with bailing out Greece... instead of considering building infrastructure to Siberia and creating a secure Northern energy belt. In the meantime, China taps Siberia's potential and builds an energy security belt of its own.
radon
 

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Serial_Worrier » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 16:14:43

ian807 wrote:In a word, "nonsense."

In a few years, they won't have the economic resources to even think of such a project, and neither will we.


Nonsense. We have more then enough wealth for 100 such projects. We just need to have the will! Triumph of the Will.
User avatar
Serial_Worrier
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1548
Joined: Thu 05 Jun 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 19:46:51

Serial_Worrier wrote:
ian807 wrote:In a word, "nonsense."

In a few years, they won't have the economic resources to even think of such a project, and neither will we.


Nonsense. We have more then enough wealth for 100 such projects. We just need to have the will! Triumph of the Will.


Indeed.. $65 billion isn't much, in terms of national spending. What was the "stimulus," half a trillion or a full trillion? The stimulus should have been massive new infrastructure projects like this tunnel. I'm not totally clear what Obama spent it on but we have nothing to show for it, save a temporary reprieve on some state teacher and gov worker layoffs. :roll:
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 21:05:10

Sixstrings wrote:
Serial_Worrier wrote:
ian807 wrote:In a word, "nonsense."

In a few years, they won't have the economic resources to even think of such a project, and neither will we.


Nonsense. We have more then enough wealth for 100 such projects. We just need to have the will! Triumph of the Will.


Indeed.. $65 billion isn't much, in terms of national spending. What was the "stimulus," half a trillion or a full trillion? The stimulus should have been massive new infrastructure projects like this tunnel. I'm not totally clear what Obama spent it on but we have nothing to show for it, save a temporary reprieve on some state teacher and gov worker layoffs. :roll:


Couldn't agree with you more 6, the stimulus was wasted/stolen into banksters pockets instead of actually being spent on useful things.
The Channel Tunnel is over 50kms long and isnt even the worlds longest rail tunnel (is in Japan), as you say $65B isn't a huge amount, so it's just a matter of will power and geology.
Having said that it could just end up being a $65B white elephant.
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Cog » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 21:05:37

The words pipe dream come to mind about this project.
User avatar
Cog
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 13416
Joined: Sat 17 May 2008, 03:00:00
Location: Northern Kekistan

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby papa moose » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 21:10:13

"Pipe dream" now where have i heard that before? :o

papa moose wrote:Not exactly MSM but it was on PO.com's news page last week.

http://peakoil.com/generalideas/russia-green-lights-65-billion-siberia-alaska-rail-and-tunnel-to-bridge-the-bering-strait/

Frankly i think it's a "pipe dream" if you'll pardon the pun. I work in the construction industry and if i had a $ for every project that was announced which never came about... well i wouldn't be in the construction industry anymore :-D
"That really annoying person you know, the one who's always spouting bullshit, the person who always thinks they're right?
Well, the odds are that for somebody else, you're that person.
So take the amount you think you know, reduce it by 99.999%, and then you'll have an idea of how much you actually know..."
papa moose
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed 17 Nov 2010, 01:44:59
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby MD » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 21:34:30

Track and tunnel maintenance will be prohibitive at best. I'm very skeptical to say the least. Especially when measured against the cost of shipping via container vessel.

A Popular Science wet-dream at best?

(to be fair to Pop-Sci, I enjoy their prognostications with great enthusiasm, but seriously?)
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
User avatar
MD
COB
COB
 
Posts: 4953
Joined: Mon 02 May 2005, 03:00:00
Location: On the ball

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby fiedag » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 21:49:14

I don't get peoples' negativity. It sounds like a great idea. Though I will say it is probably just the Russian leaders creating a little bit of mischief by messing with American national pride. Yanking their chain so to speak.
User avatar
fiedag
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu 20 Apr 2006, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 31 Aug 2011, 23:58:20

papa moose wrote:Couldn't agree with you more 6, the stimulus was wasted/stolen into banksters pockets instead of actually being spent on useful things.
The Channel Tunnel is over 50kms long and isnt even the worlds longest rail tunnel (is in Japan), as you say $65B isn't a huge amount, so it's just a matter of will power and geology.
Having said that it could just end up being a $65B white elephant.


To clarify..

The stimulus was a few things.. bailout money to the states so the struggling states would put off gov worker layoffs. I never liked that, the pols won't admit this recession is not temporary it ain't gonna get better so money printing to pay gov workers is not a solution.

The rest of the money was for "shovel ready projects" but turns out there aren't many of those.. infrastructure takes time, planning. So states just took the money and repaved roads, while needed bridges didn't get built because it wasn't "shovel ready."

The bankster thing you're referencing didn't come from government but rather our central bank.. QE.. 0% loans to Goldman Sachs and Mummar Gadaffi and various knuckleheads all over the planet.

How did all this affect you, an Australian? Well, I read that like 40% of your mines are owned by American investors. Don't have the the numbers handy but American money has swamped your country.. this is where our central bank "stimulus" went, not for things here in America but for already rich Americans to buy your country up using free Federal Reserve cash.

Probably worked out for the best for you guys though.. all this hot cash from the US is causing inflation but your economy is doing very well with the growth. These mines wouldn't have been be built without the American money.. unless your central bank wanted to print money for Australians to do it.

Honestly the whole thing is bonkers! :lol: :(
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Re: Russia to build $65 billion tunnel to Alaska

Unread postby Sixstrings » Thu 01 Sep 2011, 00:12:06

MD wrote:Track and tunnel maintenance will be prohibitive at best. I'm very skeptical to say the least. Especially when measured against the cost of shipping via container vessel.


I don't know, there's something especially efficient about rail transport. We're all sort of talking out our back side's here though, someone would have to dig into the numbers on the Chunnel.. my hunch is that a lot more traffic goes through the chunnel at a lower transit cost than what was shipped by boat before.

Trains are just so cost efficient.. you already have goods being transferred from container ship to train at the ports, so cut out the container ship middle man and that has to be more efficient.

Also trains are a lot faster than boats.
User avatar
Sixstrings
Fusion
Fusion
 
Posts: 15160
Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00

Next

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests