[Duende]

I would like to catalog the devastating statistics that describe the economic collapse, now in progress. I'm talking jobs, housing, poverty rate, homelessness rate, etc., you name it. All I ask is that you cite your stats.

I'll start with this:

The top 1% of Americans 'earn' 25% of the income and 'own' 40% of the wealth.

http://www.vanityfair.com/society/featu ... ent-201105

[Fishman]

Just terrible, and they pay 40% of the taxes, more than the bottom 95%
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24944.html

Strange, you didn't mention anything about jobs, or any of the other things you mentioned.

[prajeshbhat]

The top 1% of Americans 'earn' 25% of the income and 'own' 40% of the wealth.

That is what you would expect with vertical integration. We now have 1000 MW power plants. Just one giant machine with probably 2 or 3 generators, providing all 1000MW. You could get the same result with 20 X 50 MW power plants or 200 X 5 MW power plants. But it is not efficient. With 1 giant power plant you reduce the workforce required and serve a large customer base.
The problem occurs when there is a small drop in demand. For example when there is a housing bust. The plants become unprofitable. Then they have to depend on subsidies to keep the operations up. Or you will lose the entire 1000 MWs.
Take the case of banks. We have trillion dollar institutions. If you let them fail, millions of people lose their money instantaneously. So bail them out.
The same is the case with oil companies, utilities, car companies and what not. They have all become too big to fail.

[careinke]

My intention for this thread - which I acknowledge wasn't clearly spelled out - was to serve as a single location for people to put their single best examples of cited statistics for how jacked up our situation is.

OK, how about this one. The US has 5% of the population but 25% of the prisoners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html

[careinke]

Here is another one. The US is virtually tied with Japan for the HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... ntry-oecd/

[careinke]

Or this one. The US spends more on its military than the combined budgets of, (In decending order): China, UK, Japan, Russia, Italy, France, Germany, KSA, India, Brazil, Australia, South Korea, Spain, Turkey, Canada, Iraq, Israel, Taiwan, and Afghanistan.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/defense- ... budget.asp

[Sixstrings]

Here is another one. The US is virtually tied with Japan for the HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... ntry-oecd/

Not true. Corps can easily avoid taxes, pay nothing whatsoever.. if they do pay taxes it's because they choose to for PR reasons.

[careinke]

Here is another one. The US is virtually tied with Japan for the HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... ntry-oecd/

Not true. Corps can easily avoid taxes, pay nothing whatsoever.. if they do pay taxes it's because they choose to for PR reasons.

The rules of thread say you have to give a link for your statement. That said, I agree with you especially since GE paid $0.00 last year. But doesn't the fact that both positions are true, point out how messed up the current tax system is?

[Pops]

So the Federal government will have spent over $6 trillion--almost 41% of the nation's annual GDP--just to keep GDP stagnant. That $1 trillion a year in extra spending is 7% of the GDP, which implies that if the Federal budget returned to the carefree, free-money days of 2007, the GDP would contract by 7%.

[Pops]

Stay on topic

[prajeshbhat]

And hire the best lobbying firm money can buy, as Ranger said above.. maybe you should also donate to Rick Perry, pay for one of his Key West getaways or send his wife to Europe for shopping.. democracy is pay to play dsula -- as Herman Cain says, if you're not rich enough to know how to avoid taxes then it's your own darn fault you're not rich.

Don't you ever startle the exotic Storks that drop jobs in America's basket. They will fly away. And it wouldn't kill you to feed them once in a while.

[dsula]

Here is another one. The US is virtually tied with Japan for the HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... ntry-oecd/

Not true. Corps can easily avoid taxes, pay nothing whatsoever.. if they do pay taxes it's because they choose to for PR reasons.

Very very big companies do have the resources required to avoid some taxes. Small business (which makes up the majority of the employers) do not have that luxory.
The only way to not paying taxes is to invest your profit (buying equipment & stuff). That means the tax laws encourage you to NOT save, but spend. Which leaves the business with very small capital reserves for tough times. Yes indeed. US taxation is very anti-business and pro mooch class.

[dsula]

And hire the best lobbying firm money can buy, as Ranger said above.. maybe you should also donate to Rick Perry, pay for one of his Key West getaways or send his wife to Europe for shopping.. democracy is pay to play dsula -- as Herman Cain says, if you're not rich enough to know how to avoid taxes then it's your own darn fault you're not rich.

Maybe it's hard for you to imagine that there's something in between super rich and poor. Something called middle-class business. Business that does well, pays decent salary, is innovative, but not to the point to be able to pay $400/hr lawyers? Is it possible for you to picture that? Isn't that the kind of company you always ask for? Small, fair, paying decent salary?
Is it possible for you to imagine a 20 people business? Do you think it can afford to start-up off-shore tax operations? Do you think it's a smart idea if the business has to fork over 50% of it's profit? That doesn't leave much money for tough times. The business is then forces to quickly shed employees.
But what I'm talking to you? You cleary have no idea about running a business or what it takes to build one. Typical whiner mooch class. Check your mailbox, maybe the welfare check has come.

[Serial_Worrier]

I'm truly sickened that some people busted their butts and became very wealthy! Sickening I tell ya!

[PrestonSturges]

Here is another one. The US is virtually tied with Japan for the HIGHEST Corporate tax rate in the world.

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... ntry-oecd/

Not true. Corps can easily avoid taxes, pay nothing whatsoever.. if they do pay taxes it's because they choose to for PR reasons.

The rules of thread say you have to give a link for your statement. That said, I agree with you especially since GE paid $0.00 last year. But doesn't the fact that both positions are true, point out how messed up the current tax system is?

Why don't you care about the banking and oil industries, which get federal subsidies and pay no taxes?

Squirrel!

[smiley]

I would like to catalog the devastating statistics that describe the economic collapse, now in progress

The key to to doing proper statistics is that you have to start your research unbiased and consider all data available on an equal basis. If you want to prove a point by taking random snippets from an infinite pile of statistical data you will certainly succeed, whatever your point may be.

So if you want some confirmation that the world is falling apart around you we could certainly provide you with some more ammo. But if you want to learn something about what is happening I'm afraid you're asking the wrong question.

He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts - for support rather than illumination”

Andrew Lang

[rockdoc123]

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics

Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain (attributed to Benjamin Disraeli)

[Fishman]

Preston I do care about the subsidies to oil companies, every time I fill up my gas tank, knowing that it would probably be a dollar more without the subsidies.

More "sickening economic statistics". A broke state dumps 42 MILLION dollars on illegal aliens education. Surely this will not encourage another 2, 4, 6, .. 10 million more for California.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

Wanna make bets on more "sickening economic statistics" for California?

[misterno]

Mall Vacancies Hit All Time Record

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/internet- ... nt-1780994

Two years ago, when discussing the long-term prospects for Bill Ackman's aggressive pursuit of General Growth, we noted that while the short-term post-reorg oversold bounce is warranted, the secular shift away from big-box stores and disappearance of retailers means that many more bankruptcies are sure to follow, and will be punctuated by all time highs in mall vacancies courtesy of an ever-growing shift to internet shopping. So while the incremental bankruptcies in commercial REITs have been slow in coming primarily due to record low interest rates, the mall vacancy number just hit a new all time high. According to Bloomberg Brief: "In 1979 the one-hit wonder Buggles sang “Video killed the Radio Star.” Several economic indicators suggest it’s time for a Buggles revival: “Internet Killed the Radio Store.” The popularity of Internet shopping is having a considerable impact on the retail landscape; mall vacancies are at the highest level in measured history, big box stores are looking to reduce their footprints, and those selling book, electronics, and sporting goods are closing. During the third quarter, vacancies at regional and super-regional malls rose to 9.4 percent from 8.8 percent a year earlier and 9.3 percent in the second quarter, according to the New York-based property research company Reis. This was the highest since data was compiled in 2000." In other words, in addition to the Fed, REITs are the next entity class to have gone all in on interest rates never going up: because without organic upside growth, the only marginal benefit is from continues interest benefits. Once those end, it is game over, first on the margin, and then literally.