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The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

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The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 14:00:38

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WHEREAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDES:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



BE IT RESOLVED THAT:

WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia.



I. Election of Delegates:

The People, consisting of all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18, regardless of party affiliation and voter registration status, shall elect Two Delegates, one male and one female, by direct vote, from each of the existing 435 Congressional Districts to represent the People at the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Philadelphia convening on July 4, 2012. The office of Delegate shall be open to all United States citizens who have reached the age of 18. Executive Committees, elected by local General Assemblies from all over the United States, shall organize, coordinate and fund this national election by direct democratic voting. The Executive Committees shall operate similarly to the original Committees of Correspondence during the first American Revolution.

II. Meeting of the National General Assembly and Deliberation:

At the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, the 870 Delegates shall set forth, consider and vote upon a PETITION OF GRIEVANCES to be submitted to all members of Congress, The Supreme Court and President and each of the political candidates running in the nationwide Congressional and Presidential election in November 2012.

III. Proposed Petition for the Redress of Grievances:

This PETITION OF GRIEVANCES shall be non-partisan and address the critical issues now confronting the People of the United States and will be deliberated and voted upon by the 870 Delegates in consultation with the 99%.

The final version of the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES voted upon by the Delegates of the National General Assembly MAY or MAY NOT include the following issues:



1. Implementing an immediate ban on all private contributions of money and gifts, to all politicians in federal office, from Individuals, Corporations, Political Action Committees, Super Political Action Committees, Lobbyists, Unions and all other private sources of money to be replaced by the fair and equal public financing of all federal political campaigns. We REJECT the concept that money is equal to free speech because if that were so, then only the wealthiest would have a voice. These actions must be taken because it has become clear that politicians in the United States cannot regulate themselves and have become the exclusive representatives of corporations, unions and the very wealthy who spend vast sums of money on political campaigns to influence the candidates’ decisions and ensure their reelection year after year.



2. The immediate reversal of the outrageous and anti-democratic holding in the "Citizens United" case by the Supreme Court, which equates the payment of money by corporations and unions to politicians with free speech. Bribery is not protected speech.



3. Prohibiting all public officials and their immediate family members, whether elected or appointed from EVER being employed by any corporation they regulate while in office and/or holding any stock or shares in any corporation they regulate while in office until a full 5 years after their term is completed.



4. A complete lifetime ban on accepting all gifts, services, money, directly or indirectly, to any elected or appointed officials or their immediate family members, from any person, corporation, union or other entity that the public official was charged to regulate while in office.



5. A complete reformation of the United States Tax Code to require ALL citizens to pay a fair share of a progressive, graduated income tax by eliminating loopholes, unfair tax breaks, exemptions and deductions, subsidies (e.g. oil, gas and farm) and ending all other methods of evading taxes. The current system of taxation favors the wealthiest Americans, many of who pay fewer taxes to the United States Treasury than citizens who earn much less and pay a much higher percentage of income in taxes to the United States Treasury.



6. Medicare for all American citizens adjusted by a means test (i.e. citizens who can afford it will opt-out of Medicare and pay their own health insurance or opt-in and pay a means tested Medicare premium). The Medicaid program, fraught with corruption and fraud, will be eliminated except for the purpose of providing emergency room care to indigent non-citizens who will not be covered by Medicare-for-all.



7. New comprehensive regulations to give the Environmental Protection Agency the power to shut down corporations, businesses or another entity that intentionally damages the environment and/or criminally prosecute individuals who intentionally damage the environment. Immediate adoption of the most recent international protocols to cap carbon emissions and new goals to transition away from fossil fuels to reusable or carbon neutral sources of power as soon as possible.



8. Adoption of an immediate plan to reduce the national debt to a sustainable percentage of GDP by 2020. Reduction of the national debt to be achieved by BOTH a cut in spending to corporations engaged in perpetual war for profit, the "healthcare" industry, the pharmaceutical industry and all other sectors that use the federal budget as their income stream AND a truly progressive income tax code that does not allow the wealthy and corporations to evade taxes through excessive deductions, subsidies and loopholes.



9. Passage of a comprehensive job and job-training bill to employ our citizens in jobs that are available with specialized training and by putting People to work tomorrow by repairing America's crumbling infrastructure. Establishment of an online international job exchange to match employers with skilled workers or employers willing to train workers in 21st century skills.



10. Student loan debt relief. Our young People and students are more than $830 billion in debt from education loans alone. Payment and interest on these debts should be deferred for periods of unemployment and the principal reduced using a corporate tax surcharge and by extending the age to collect social security from 65 to 70.



11. Immediate passage of the Dream Act and comprehensive immigration and border security reform including offering visas, lawful permanent resident status and citizenship to the world’s brightest People to come and work in our industries and schools.



12. Recalling all military personnel at all non-essential bases and refocusing national defense goals to address threats posed by the geopolitics of the 21st century, terrorism and limiting the large scale deployment of military forces to instances where Congressional approval has been granted to counter the Military Industrial Complex's goal of perpetual war for profit.



13. Mandating new educational goals to train the American public to perform jobs in a 21st Century economy, particularly in the areas of technology and green energy, taking into consideration the redundancy caused by technology and the inexpensive cost of labor in China, India and other countries and paying our teachers a salary that is competitive with the private sector.



14. Subject to the elimination of corporate tax loopholes and exploited exemptions and deductions stated above, offering tax incentives to businesses to reconstruct the manufacturing capacity of the United States and reinstitution of the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps and other emergency governmental agencies required to create new public works projects to provide jobs to the 46 million People living in poverty, the 9.1% unemployed and 10% underemployed.



15. Implementing immediate legislation to encourage China and our other trading partners to end currency manipulation or impose a consumption tax on goods that those countries export to the United States calculated by comparing the fair market value of the currency to the manipulated valuation.



16. Immediate reenactment of the Glass-Steagall Act and increased regulation of Wall Street and the financial industry by the SEC, FINRA and the other financial regulators, and the commencement of a Justice Department criminal investigations into the Securities and Banking industries practices that led to the collapse of markets, $700 billion bail-out, and financial firm failures in 2007-2008.



17. Adoption of President Clinton’s plan to end the mortgage crisis and instead of the Federal Reserve continuing to lower interest rates for loans to banks who are refusing to loan to small businesses and consumers, the Federal Reserve shall buy all underwater or foreclosed mortgages and refinance the these debt at 1% or less to be managed by the newly established Consumer Protection Agency (and foreclosure task force described below) because 1% or less is the interest rate the Federal Reserve loans to the banks directly who hoard the cash rather than loan it to the People and small businesses.



18. An immediate one year freeze on all foreclosures to be reviewed by an independent foreclosure task force appointed by Congress and the Executive Branch to determine, on a case by case basis, whether foreclosure proceedings should continue based on the circumstances of each homeowner.



19. Subject to the above ban on money and gifts in politics, additional campaign finance reform requiring free air time and public campaign finances to all candidates who obtain sufficient petition signatures and/or votes to participate in the primaries and/or electoral process, shortening the campaign season and allow voting on weekends and holidays. Voting must be accessible to all citizens for democracy to work.



20. An immediate withdrawal of all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan and a substantial increase in the amount of funding needed for veteran job placement and the treatment of the physical and emotional injuries sustained by veterans in these wars. Our veterans are committing suicide at an unprecedented rate and we must help now.



BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 870 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the PEOPLE, are not acted upon by Congress, the President and Supreme Court, to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY after presentment of the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES, said Delegates shall organize a THIRD, COMPLETELY NON-PARTISAN INDEPENDENT POLITICAL PARTY to run candidates for every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporatocracy have been removed.

★THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT★
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/home


From the "who are we" section:

Many people have asked, who is behind this declaration and plan of action?

We are a group of college students and pro bono lawyers who met when the students got arrested in NYC. Since then, we have established an Occupy Wall Street "Working Group" to prepare a proposal to elect an Executive Committee for the purpose of organizing an election of a National General Assembly to vote on a formal petition of grievances.

This is only a proposal and sample list of just demands on the government. Only a duly elected body can legitimize a list of demands from the People.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 14:34:15

Congrats to the 99ers for finally coming up with a political program.

There are things I like and things I don't like.

I like the idea of cutting the debt and many other things.

However, the 99 plan, much like Herman Cain's 999 plan, is going to dramatically hurt some low-income Americans.

In particular, item #10 calls for raising the social security eligibility age to 70, and using the savings to pay off student loan debt. Working class people are ALREADY subsidizing the federal student loan program. Its wrong for the 99 plan to target working class people by taking away their right to retire at 65 and using THEIR MONEY to pay off the loans of middle class and rich kids who can afford to go to college.

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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Duende » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 15:04:51

Content-wise, I like what I saw there. I need to roll my mind over a few of the details, but it's definitely a good start.

Process-wise, this sounds pretty ballsy and radical. I was actually hoping that the Occupy Movement would go in this direction. They recognize that the existing system offers a false choice between the puppet on the left (Democrat) or puppet on the right (Republican).

Also, they are tapping into the same ire that fuels the Tea party by offering a historical nod to the past with their 'list of grievances'. This time, it's not to the King, but to 'THE MAN'.
"Where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?" -Thomas Huxley
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 15:22:43

S wrote:BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 870 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the PEOPLE, are not acted upon by Congress, the President and Supreme Court, to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY after presentment of the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES, said Delegates shall organize a THIRD, COMPLETELY NON-PARTISAN INDEPENDENT POLITICAL PARTY to run candidates for every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporatocracy have been removed.


Don't the 99ers know that it is impossible to have a "non-partisan" political party?

The word "partisan" MEANS someone who supports a political party. :roll:
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 15:59:01

Looks like this will change planted. :)
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Duende » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 16:01:48

Plantagenet wrote:
Don't the 99ers know that it is impossible to have a "non-partisan" political party?

Perhaps they are meaning to stress that this is firmly outside of the establishment complete with the all too familiar well-worn lines in the sand?

Your criticism is valid, though insubstantial.
"Where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?" -Thomas Huxley
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Timo » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 16:33:14

2012 will be an interesting year, end of times, or not. The facade of governance has been exposed by Wikileaks. OPEC control of the price of oil is being reduced by the Arab Spring. Europe is falling apart at the seams. Japan still has a cataclysmic natural, albeit man-made, disaster preventing any sense of normal life. The end of economic growth is even being talked about by mainstream economists! Throw in the OWS, and it genuinly seems that the way of life we all grew up in and took for granted is coming to a screeching halt, or a train wreck, or hitting a brick wall, or a spinorama........ The status quo as a means of doing business is coming to its own involuntary end of life. Maybe the Mayans were right, after all. Life, as we know it, will simply morph into a different way of being next year. The end of growth dictates a whole new set of policies and regulations in the repretoire of governance. Either that, or governance will simply cease altogether. To avoid that catastrophe, i strongly encourage the 99%. It's best to make necessary changes while some "system" of governance still exists.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 16:54:51

What I like:

a). They have defined what they want.

b). They have proposed a valid mechanism for change. Voting in a 3rd party (which MANY Americans wanting ACTUAL "change" including myself MAY consider voting for once enough details have been filled in).



What I don't like:

a). They have mixed grievances with proposals. Those should have been separate lists. For one thing, the word "fair" gets used a lot instead of something substantive, such as a proposal of ACTUAL tax rates (even if they are just round numbers at this point).

b). Via point 14, they show an extremely short sighted (and unwise) willingness to just let a NEW set of cronies end up running things, by opening things right away to "special" taxes, incentives, etc. -- which will INEVITABLY lead to the SAME mess we have now. Better to shut that mess down and just let the tax RATE float (via majority vote) to deal with the reaility of the given time (i.e. what is needed -- War? Infrastructure emergency? Education Emergency? Epidemic? New credible terrorist threats? Economic emergency? etc).

[/quote]
14. Subject to the elimination of corporate tax loopholes and exploited exemptions and deductions stated above, offering tax incentives to businesses to reconstruct the manufacturing capacity of the United States and reinstitution of the Works Progress Administration and Civilian Conservation Corps and other emergency governmental agencies required to create new public works projects to provide jobs to the 46 million People living in poverty, the 9.1% unemployed and 10% underemployed.
[/quote]
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 20:00:31

Outcast_Searcher wrote:They have mixed grievances with proposals.


That's a good point. Something like the Declaration of Independence would be more effective at least as an initial document; a list of grievances, then declaration by the People -- declaring there's a new sheriff in town, the People are sovereign, the People are mad as hell, these are our grievances now it's up to YOU government to respond on how you're going to redress these grievances.

But before we get too critical..

This is just a draft from one particular "working group," it's not final everything is still up in the air and yet we're all interested in it. That right there is pretty successful for what started as what, a couple hundred just protesting in a New York park. Look at all that's been accomplished in a month -- national attention, Occupy protests in just about every town and city across this country from down my own street on up to the Alaskan tundra. Solidarity protests springing up around the world, everyone adopting the "99%" slogan and the OWS message -- from London, across Europe, even India, Japan, and South Korea.

Makes me proud to be an American. It reminds me that Americans are leaders in the world -- not just our elite, if the American people rise up then the rest of the world will too. All this started from nothing just a month ago. So maybe folks need to be patient, give them some time. :lol:

b). Via point 14, they show an extremely short sighted (and unwise) willingness to just let a NEW set of cronies end up running things, by opening things right away to "special" taxes, incentives, etc. -- which will INEVITABLY lead to the SAME mess we have now.


Indeed, I'm actually surprised it isn't more radical -- it's all rather pragmatic. It reads like a product of consensus-seeking. The above point you referenced is a nod to the offshoring problem -- the tax breaks would be for manufacturing and infrastructure created here in the US. That's a practical idea. Nothing radical here. The language is actually all very moderate -- encourage China to stop manipulating currency, if they don't then enact consumption taxes (tariffs) on imports. Combine that with tax breaks for creating jobs here in the US, and overall it's a moderate, pragmatic plan.

Going forward.. perhaps this global movement will evolve into some kind of new ground-up peoples' participatory open source democracy -- citizens not just listening to pols and voting between establishment pol A and B but rather, people meeting with each other in local groups and on the internet, people actually coming up with ideas themselves and reaching consensus themselves. Truly government of the people, for the people, from the people.

Anti-corporate. Anti-elite. Anti-bankster. Good stuff. :)
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 20:41:51

Plantagenet wrote:In particular, item #10 calls for raising the social security eligibility age to 70, and using the savings to pay off student loan debt. Working class people are ALREADY subsidizing the federal student loan program. Its wrong for the 99 plan to target working class people by taking away their right to retire at 65 and using THEIR MONEY to pay off the loans of middle class and rich kids who can afford to go to college.


I agree, that stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I can't imagine how they came up with that -- raising the SS age -- for lefties, this is the red line no way you don't screw with Social Security to pay for some other idea.

And.. if we ended the wars / military occupations and if we taxed corps and the rich then that right there is a lot of cash raised. Not necessary to mess with SS -- in fact, you could actually RAISE benefits. I think it was Paul Krugman who wrote about this, but all you need is a little bit more tax on the rich and you can actually not only save SS but increase benefits.

About the student loan debt relief..

I think one of the ideas above was having the federal reserve refinance all student loans at 1%. That's fair I think, if banksters can get a 0% loan why can't students get one at 1% for school? The Fed hands out money to the rich supposedly to get money circulating; so why not loan it to students too, it's even better than giving to banksters because the hedge funders just invest it in China or buy food / oil futures. So student debt relief is actually easy -- these OWS'ers are too moderate, we could just refinance the loans at 1% and I don't know the numbers but with the trillions already printed and GIVEN to hedge funders and banksters I don't see why we can't print a bit more and have some debt relief.

Back to SS, we'll see what happens with this group.. with all the lefties in this movement, I can't imagine them coming to consensus on raising SS age.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 17 Oct 2011, 20:54:24, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Bruce_S » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 20:46:08

"The final version of the PETITION OF GRIEVANCES voted upon by the Delegates of the National General Assembly MAY or MAY NOT include the following issues."

Great...they have a list...which may or may not be meaningful. Which may or may not include. Which may or may not be relevant. How wonderfully...ambivalent?
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Cloud9 » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 21:35:38

This may morph into a constitutional convention. Such an idea is pregnant with possibilities but scarey as hell. What happens if some states refuse to ratify the new union?
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Bruce_S » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 21:43:40

Cloud9 wrote:This may morph into a constitutional convention. Such an idea is pregnant with possibilities but scarey as hell. What happens if some states refuse to ratify the new union?


Oh, I think you are a bit ahead of what is actually going on at this point. Let them form another political party, I think that would be great. But this "the 1% should pay for our foolish college choices and provide us with jobs for everyone with a degree in womens studies" seems more than a bit delusional in any rational marketplace, and certainly there won't be any jobs for them if they wreck that.

I like their idea that BAU will keep on trucking along though, jobs for everyone, if we only demand it!
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Duende » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 21:48:05

Bruce_S wrote:
Great...they have a list...which may or may not be meaningful. Which may or may not include. Which may or may not be relevant. How wonderfully...ambivalent?


A wise man once said:
...little patience, mm yeah, ooh yeah,
Need a little patience, yeah
Just a little patience, yeah
Some more pati... (ence, yeah)
I've been walking these streets at night
Just trying to get it right (Need some patience, yeah)
It's hard to see with so many around
You know I don't like being stuck in a crowd (Could use some patience, yeah)
And the streets don't change but maybe the name
I ain't got time for the game
'Cause I need you (Patience, yeah)
Yeah, yeah well I need you
Oh, I need you (Take some patience)
Whoa, I need you (Just a little patience is all we need)
Ooh, this ti- me....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErvgV4P6Fzc&ob=av2e
"Where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?" -Thomas Huxley
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby MD » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 22:04:53

It won't go far.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Fishman » Mon 17 Oct 2011, 22:14:24

Sorry, not even close to "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor."

From the start, no voter registration needed, stuff that voter box baby
Doubles the delegates, more money, larger government, felons get to run,
The non partisan petitions are all partisan,
Just love the healthcare bill, Medicare pays most docs so little their overhead isn't covered. Love covering those "non- citizens"
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#8 no new drugs, no new investments
#11 prevents #8 from ever occurring
#18 closes all banks
Its like Alice in Wonderland, Pelosi, everyone's who's ever failed Economics 101, wrote this while sitting around smoking weed and banging bongos. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Oakley » Tue 18 Oct 2011, 00:59:24

I think people misunderstand rights. It is not your right to force someone to give you something. It is your right to keep people from taking something from you.

You have a right to life, liberty and property. This does not mean that others are required to give things to you. It is not a right of yours to be given food, medical care, a job; it is a right of yours that nobody can deny you your own acquisition of these things.

Government is force. We each only have the right to use force in self defense. All other use of force is a violation of the rights of someone. If we can use force only for self defense, we can only legitimately authorize others such as private security services or government to use force for our defense, and nothing else.

So yes, we are each sovereign over ourselves and not others.

Government, as it exist today, is simply plunder and control; a scam to use force to deprive us of our lives, liberty and property.

They do this by forcing us to turn over wealth to them in the form of taxes. They do this when they devalue the money we use by inflating the supply. They do this when they pass laws favoring one group over another economically, so that one group wins and one group loses.

If you want to redress grievances you should be demanding that government stop rigging the markets against the majority in favor of the few. You should not be demanding that you be given free stuff because in order for you to be given free stuff, government must take away from others their wealth in order to pay for the stuff, and contrary to the class warfare view, most of the wealth government takes is from the majority, i.e., from you. You should be demanding that government get out of the way of you providing for yourself, since government creates most of the poverty and skewed distribution of income and wealth.

As I have pointed out before, we are on the road to revolution, just as we were before the 1775 Revolution and the 1861 Civil War. The three factions that will be fighting this war are (1) those in power who wish to remain so and who wish to continue the current system of plunder and control, (2) those who want the plunder and control to continue, but wish the largesse to be given to them instead of the current privileged beneficiaries, as expressed in this Petition, and (3) those who want to end the plunder and control and let people freely pursue their own lives without the burden of their rights being violated to serve the lives of others.

The portions of this petition which seeks to end the current system of plunder and control are morally justified; the portions that demand government largesse be passed out are not.
"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence" Thomas H Huxley
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 18 Oct 2011, 01:07:58

Sixstrings wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:In particular, item #10 calls for raising the social security eligibility age to 70, and using the savings to pay off student loan debt. Working class people are ALREADY subsidizing the federal student loan program. Its wrong for the 99 plan to target working class people by taking away their right to retire at 65 and using THEIR MONEY to pay off the loans of middle class and rich kids who can afford to go to college.


I agree, that stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I can't imagine how they came up with that -- raising the SS age -- for lefties, this is the red line no way you don't screw with Social Security to pay for some other idea.

And.. if we ended the wars / military occupations and if we taxed corps and the rich then that right there is a lot of cash raised. Not necessary to mess with SS -- in fact, you could actually RAISE benefits. I think it was Paul Krugman who wrote about this, but all you need is a little bit more tax on the rich and you can actually not only save SS but increase benefits.

About the student loan debt relief..

I think one of the ideas above was having the federal reserve refinance all student loans at 1%. That's fair I think, if banksters can get a 0% loan why can't students get one at 1% for school? The Fed hands out money to the rich supposedly to get money circulating; so why not loan it to students too, it's even better than giving to banksters because the hedge funders just invest it in China or buy food / oil futures. So student debt relief is actually easy -- these OWS'ers are too moderate, we could just refinance the loans at 1% and I don't know the numbers but with the trillions already printed and GIVEN to hedge funders and banksters I don't see why we can't print a bit more and have some debt relief.

Back to SS, we'll see what happens with this group.. with all the lefties in this movement, I can't imagine them coming to consensus on raising SS age.


I can perhaps provide an insight as to where this came from. There is a generational war going on where the youngest generation is seeing that they are paying for and inheriting the excesses of the older generation. They want to also make that "fair". This legislation calls on the generation who exploited them the most to work a few extra years to help out paying for the younger generations student loans.

I tend to agree with this.

On a related story that perhaps illustrates the humility that the young generation should expect from the oldsters. Yesterday one of my construction managers here in Panama has a brother who needs cardiovascular surgery. He cannot afford the $ 25000 price tag this surgery has here in Panama. He mentioned that anyway, even if he had the money he would not elect to spend it because the savings he has is reserved for his children.

How many self entitled baby boomers are going to demonstrate this sentiment as they age???
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 18 Oct 2011, 01:43:58

Oakley wrote:
As I have pointed out before, we are on the road to revolution, just as we were before the 1775 Revolution and the 1861 Civil War.


Neither of those previous revolutions came about as a result of the massive control that corporations have as we see in modern global capitalism.

Your rant was all focused on the government. The government is not beholden to themselves but rather to corporations.

When I hear rants that focus exclusively either on corporations or on government it smells to me of ideology speaking rather than confronting the source which is really the degree to which corporations and the government are linked in serving the 1% rather than the 99%.
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Re: The 99Percent Petition for the Redress of Grievances

Unread postby Sixstrings » Tue 18 Oct 2011, 05:31:49

Fishman wrote:Its like Alice in Wonderland, Pelosi, everyone's who's ever failed Economics 101, wrote this while sitting around smoking weed and banging bongos. Oh wait, that's exactly what happened.


Ok then.. so what's your plan to increase income equality and rebuild a strong middle class?

Oh.. that's right, you like things just how they are.

Whether the economy is working or not is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. But you know inflation is way up. You know about the price of gold. If these financial reforms aren't enacted Fish, fiat collapse and mass civil unrest will affect even you.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Tue 18 Oct 2011, 05:34:25, edited 1 time in total.
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