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Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

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Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 16:45:58

How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the OWS Protests:

...Occupy Wall Street was always about something much bigger than a movement against big banks and modern finance. It's about providing a forum for people to show how tired they are not just of Wall Street, but everything. This is a visceral, impassioned, deep-seated rejection of the entire direction of our society, a refusal to take even one more step forward into the shallow commercial abyss of phoniness, short-term calculation, withered idealism and intellectual bankruptcy that American mass society has become. If there is such a thing as going on strike from one's own culture, this is it. And by being so broad in scope and so elemental in its motivation, it's flown over the heads of many on both the right and the left.

We're all born wanting the freedom to imagine a better and more beautiful future. But modern America has become a place so drearily confining and predictable that it chokes the life out of that built-in desire. Everything from our pop culture to our economy to our politics feels oppressive and unresponsive. We see 10 million commercials a day, and every day is the same life-killing chase for money, money and more money; the only thing that changes from minute to minute is that every tick of the clock brings with it another space-age vendor dreaming up some new way to try to sell you something or reach into your pocket. The relentless sameness of the two-party political system is beginning to feel like a Jacob's Ladder nightmare with no end; we're entering another turn on the four-year merry-go-round, and the thought of having to try to get excited about yet another minor quadrennial shift in the direction of one or the other pole of alienating corporate full-of-shitness is enough to make anyone want to smash his own hand flat with a hammer.

If you think of it this way, Occupy Wall Street takes on another meaning. There's no better symbol of the gloom and psychological repression of modern America than the banking system, a huge heartless machine that attaches itself to you at an early age, and from which there is no escape. You fail to receive a few past-due notices about a $19 payment you missed on that TV you bought at Circuit City, and next thing you know a collector has filed a judgment against you for $3,000 in fees and interest. Or maybe you wake up one morning and your car is gone, legally repossessed by Vulture Inc., the debt-buying firm that bought your loan on the Internet from Chase for two cents on the dollar. This is why people hate Wall Street. They hate it because the banks have made life for ordinary people a vicious tightrope act; you slip anywhere along the way, it's 10,000 feet down into a vat of razor blades that you can never climb out of.

That, to me, is what Occupy Wall Street is addressing. People don't know exactly what they want, but as one friend of mine put it, they know one thing: F*** THIS S***! We want something different: a different life, with different values, or at least a chance at different values...

We're a nation that was built on a thousand different utopian ideas, from the Shakers to the Mormons to New Harmony, Indiana. It was possible, once, for communities to experiment with everything from free love to an end to private property. But nowadays even the palest federalism is swiftly crushed. If your state tries to place tariffs on companies doing business with some notorious human-rights-violator state – like Massachusetts did, when it sought to bar state contracts to firms doing business with Myanmar – the decision will be overturned by some distant global bureaucracy like the WTO. Even if 40 million Californians vote tomorrow to allow themselves to smoke a joint, the federal government will never permit it. And the economy is run almost entirely by an unaccountable oligarchy in Lower Manhattan that absolutely will not sanction any innovations in banking or debt forgiveness or anything else that might lessen its predatory influence...

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/ne ... z1dQnetnhl
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby The Practician » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 17:15:48

Pretty good assessment, I think. It seems a lot of the MSM can't really get a handle on the amount of contempt some people have for "the system" and the American Dream. They may be a minority at this point, but as any peak oil "doomer" should be aware, the writing is on the F##*@ing wall. Maybe not all the OWSers have as comprehensive a grasp of the hows and the whys as some might wish, but at least they understand that there is no brighter future for the status quo, and that it might be in their rational self interest to at least try and make some changes.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Bruce_S » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 19:59:29

The Practician wrote: It seems a lot of the MSM can't really get a handle on the amount of contempt some people have for "the system" and the American Dream.



Why would they need to? The OWS gang are demanding health care and jobs for everyone and endless BAU. While demanding that might be interpreted by "contempt" by some, it sure looks more like "I wants to get mine!" to others.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby The Practician » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 21:21:54

Bruce_S wrote:
The Practician wrote: It seems a lot of the MSM can't really get a handle on the amount of contempt some people have for "the system" and the American Dream.



Why would they need to? The OWS gang are demanding health care and jobs for everyone and endless BAU. While demanding that might be interpreted by "contempt" by some, it sure looks more like "I wants to get mine!" to others.



Since when is "health care and jobs" BAU in the USA? :lol: You're the Pie-eyed cornucopian promoting endless prosperity, with your wet dreams about driving your Chevy Volt bailoutmobile to the mall, not OWS. Funny how you seem to be projecting your own beliefs on them.

Before you accuse me of projecting my beliefs onto the OWS movement, I would just like to say I think I am only guilty of projecting a fraction of my beliefs onto a fraction of the OWS movement, and that fraction might be quite large and not well understood.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Bruce_S » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 21:49:19

The Practician wrote: Since when is "health care and jobs" BAU in the USA? :lol:


I don't know about you, but last time I checked out the stats there are some hundreds of millions of employed Americans, and hundreds of millions with health care. While hundreds of millions might not be all that much in China, here in the US, its called "bunches".

According to Wiki, some 85% of people are covered under some form of health care or another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car ... ted_States

The Practician wrote:You're the Pie-eyed cornucopian promoting endless prosperity, with your wet dreams about driving your Chevy Volt bailoutmobile to the mall, not OWS. Funny how you seem to be projecting your own beliefs on them.


I haven't said a word about endless prosperity, so please don't project your secret hopes on me. And buying a car (something most people on this website have probably done at some point in their lives) doesn't make any of us cornies, or advocates of prosperity. It just means that we understand (in the case of the Volt) why we need to think about our purchases running on something other than crude.

The Practician wrote:Before you accuse me of projecting my beliefs onto the OWS movement, I would just like to say I think I am only guilty of projecting a fraction of my beliefs onto a fraction of the OWS movement, and that fraction might be quite large and not well understood.


Notice how I accused you of nothing. Projecting your desire to buy a Volt doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you want a Volt and don't want to admit it in this particular environment. Your inability to buck the group doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you...well...like most Americans.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby The Practician » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 23:05:49

Bruce_S wrote:
I don't know about you, but last time I checked out the stats there are some hundreds of millions of employed Americans, and hundreds of millions with health care. While hundreds of millions might not be all that much in China, here in the US, its called "bunches".

According to Wiki, some 85% of people are covered under some form of health care or another.


:lol: I'll see your 85% ,and raise you 15%. I live in Canada, land of reasonable and affordable health care for all(for now). Our system isn't perfect, but we do it a little better than you.


The Practician wrote:You're the Pie-eyed cornucopian promoting endless prosperity, with your wet dreams about driving your Chevy Volt bailoutmobile to the mall, not OWS. Funny how you seem to be projecting your own beliefs on them.


I haven't said a word about endless prosperity, so please don't project your secret hopes on me. And buying a car (something most people on this website have probably done at some point in their lives) doesn't make any of us cornies, or advocates of prosperity. It just means that we understand (in the case of the Volt) why we need to think about our purchases running on something other than crude.[/quote]

From the volt thread:

Me: Oh, Right. I forgot "economies of scale" in electrical energy production are going to save BAU in the face of peak oil.

You: "Are" going to save? I would say, already have, particularly when the only need is additional, reasonably priced generation to continue BAU in commuter transport.

Sounds pretty Corny to me. You need to think about a little bit more than your "purchases", Bruce. You need to think about the system that makes those kinds of purchases, and the broad middle class that provides a market for those kinds of purchases, possible.



Notice how I accused you of nothing. Projecting your desire to buy a Volt doesn't make you a bad person, it just means you want a Volt and don't want to admit it in this particular environment. Your inability to buck the group doesn't make you a bad person, it just makes you...well...like most Americans.


Most Americans are bad people,
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Bruce_S » Fri 11 Nov 2011, 23:25:56

The Practician wrote:
Bruce_S wrote:According to Wiki, some 85% of people are covered under some form of health care or another.


:lol: I'll see your 85% ,and raise you 15%. I live in Canada, land of reasonable and affordable health care for all(for now). Our system isn't perfect, but we do it a little better than you.


I would have to agree. Canada is great. Not sure if you are "great" in terms of the health care that the well insured down here can get (I've heard it can be a bit tough to get an MRI or Catscan the same afternoon it is needed, is that true?) but for covering everyone and taking it off the table as a worry, you guys rock.

The Practician wrote:From the volt thread:

Me: Oh, Right. I forgot "economies of scale" in electrical energy production are going to save BAU in the face of peak oil.

You: "Are" going to save? I would say, already have, particularly when the only need is additional, reasonably priced generation to continue BAU in commuter transport.

Sounds pretty Corny to me.


I didn't say I didn't lean towards realism generally, only that electricity and the economies of scale associated with eco-friendly forms of producing it have a pretty bright future.Particularly when it comes to the places where most oil is wasted, like powering personal transportation in my country. And yours.

The Practician wrote:You need to think about a little bit more than your "purchases", Bruce. You need to think about the system that makes those kinds of purchases, and the broad middle class that provides a market for those kinds of purchases, possible.


I have. Otherwise I wouldn't be out test driving these type of peak oil solutions. You don't seriously think that us Americans are so rich that we can rush out and buy $40G US cars without a thorough and complete investigation of both the costs and benefits involved do you?

The Practician wrote:Most Americans are bad people,


Possibly true. But us being "bad" means that Canada can continue a national policy of being irrelevant on the world stage because lets face it, with an 800# gorilla protecting your land borders, as a nation you certainly won't ever be required to grow a spine, collectively or individually speaking.

You are welcome. 8)
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 02:12:12

Bruce_S wrote:According to Wiki, some 85% of people are covered under some form of health care or another.
That would be the 85% healthy enough to work and earn enough to pay the premiums.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby The Practician » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 04:14:33

Bruce_S wrote:
The Practician wrote:
Bruce_S wrote:According to Wiki, some 85% of people are covered under some form of health care or another.


:lol: I'll see your 85% ,and raise you 15%. I live in Canada, land of reasonable and affordable health care for all(for now). Our system isn't perfect, but we do it a little better than you.


I would have to agree. Canada is great. Not sure if you are "great" in terms of the health care that the well insured down here can get (I've heard it can be a bit tough to get an MRI or Catscan the same afternoon it is needed, is that true?) but for covering everyone and taking it off the table as a worry, you guys rock.

The Practician wrote:From the volt thread:

Me: Oh, Right. I forgot "economies of scale" in electrical energy production are going to save BAU in the face of peak oil.

You: "Are" going to save? I would say, already have, particularly when the only need is additional, reasonably priced generation to continue BAU in commuter transport.

Sounds pretty Corny to me.


I didn't say I didn't lean towards realism generally, only that electricity and the economies of scale associated with eco-friendly forms of producing it have a pretty bright future.Particularly when it comes to the places where most oil is wasted, like powering personal transportation in my country. And yours.

The Practician wrote:You need to think about a little bit more than your "purchases", Bruce. You need to think about the system that makes those kinds of purchases, and the broad middle class that provides a market for those kinds of purchases, possible.


I have. Otherwise I wouldn't be out test driving these type of peak oil solutions. You don't seriously think that us Americans are so rich that we can rush out and buy $40G US cars without a thorough and complete investigation of both the costs and benefits involved do you?

The Practician wrote:Most Americans are bad people,


Possibly true. But us being "bad" means that Canada can continue a national policy of being irrelevant on the world stage because lets face it, with an 800# gorilla protecting your land borders, as a nation you certainly won't ever be required to grow a spine, collectively or individually speaking.

You are welcome. 8)


You are absolutely right about Canada bruce, I broke down in tears the other day thinking about what a sick weak client state of the US we really are and the direction our societys are going. For an Idea of how seriously I take this issue, all four of my grandparents died and my parents split up without me shedding a tear on the subject
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby pup55 » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 09:10:22

every tick of the clock brings with it another space-age vendor dreaming up some new way to try to sell you something or reach into your pocket


Thought question: where are the mass-Iphone burnings?

Re: Canada: Transport the population of Mississippi up there and see how long it stays that way. The Canadian system works in large part because there is no permanent legacy minority underclass to be a proverbial remora off of it. You'd never be able to transplant that system sustainably to the US in its current condition.

p.s. Precisely the same thing goes for the People's Republic of Massachusetts, whose governor is running for POTUS and implemented a system of statewide mandatory health care, and it was reasonably successful for exactly the same reason. People up there are already pretty healthy, they're bright, and they tend to work.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby dorlomin » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 09:18:03

pup55 wrote:The Canadian system works in large part because there is no permanent legacy minority underclass
Really?

Next you will be saying the same thing about Australia.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby pup55 » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 12:03:39

ah, thank you for reminding me about the indigenous population. But, unlike mississippi, it's a small fraction. This article from wikipedia says that in Canada it's 4%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada

The population of the descendants of the indigenous people in Australia is 0.58%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographi ... population

The population of slave-descendants in Massachusetts is 8%

The population of slave descendants in Mississippi is 37%.

in Mississippi, only 20 percent of the locals have graduated from college, and one must assume that many of them were graduates of the two cow colleges in the state, or should I say "chicken colleges", Ole Miss, and MSU who are more famous for their football teams than for their nobel prize winners, and the football has not been all that great.

In Massachusetts, 37% of the adult population graduated from college, and although there is some doubt in my mind whether several of them should be bulldozed and have salt plowed into the soil to prevent anyone from trying to restart them because of their insufficient of teaching of ethics, particularly as it applies to business and government, presumably some of its academic brilliance rubs off on the shoe shiners and the place tends to be pretty sophisticated.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/11/06/ashe

Over half of Canadians are college educated.

In Mississippi, the infant mortality rate is 11%, in Massachusetts it's 5%. in Canada it's 5.2%.

Unemployment: Massachusetts 7.3%, Mississippi 11%, among the slave descendants in the US it's 16% nationwide, Canada 7.3%.

I don't think I need to go on. All I'm saying is it's easier to set up a system where people are responsible in places like Massachusetts and Canada than it is in Mississippi, with a poor, stupid population.

Those OWS types: I dunno who they are, I suppose I should go down to where they are camping out locally and look, but I think they're young, white, bright, and all have ipods. Do they have a point? Sure. They have a nice, friendly version of the future, so more power to them. But, how do you get from here to there? That is the question.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Bruce_S » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 12:09:08

The Practician wrote:
Bruce_S wrote: But us being "bad" means that Canada can continue a national policy of being irrelevant on the world stage because lets face it, with an 800# gorilla protecting your land borders, as a nation you certainly won't ever be required to grow a spine, collectively or individually speaking.

You are welcome. 8)


You are absolutely right about Canada bruce, I broke down in tears the other day thinking about what a sick weak client state of the US we really are and the direction our societys are going. For an Idea of how seriously I take this issue, all four of my grandparents died and my parents split up without me shedding a tear on the subject


Well, as American power wanes over the coming years, there is always the chance that things will change. I like Canada, and Canadians, in part I think because you don't have to be a country like us. Not everyone wants to be the worlds 911 call center, and doing it is costing us dearly and might be our undoing. But even if it is our undoing, at the end of the day, it just means we'll back off the world stage more, but we are here for the long haul, and you guys aren't going anywhere either, so whatever we turn out to be society wise in the long run, it will be right along with you guys. For better or worse, the geography of this relationship isn't going anywhere.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Loki » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 14:24:07

I particularly liked this paragraph from Taibbi's piece:

What happened on Wall Street over the past decade was an unparalleled crime wave. Yet at most, maybe 1,500 federal agents were policing that beat – and that little group of financial cops barely made any cases at all. Yet when thousands of ordinary people hit the streets with the express purpose of obeying the law and demonstrating their patriotism through peaceful protest, the police response is immediate and massive. There have already been hundreds of arrests, which is hundreds more than we ever saw during the years when Wall Street bankers were stealing billions of dollars from retirees and mutual-fund holders and carpenters unions through the mass sales of fraudulent mortgage-backed securities.

One law for the rich, another law for the rest of us....
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Oneaboveall » Sat 12 Nov 2011, 23:01:58

Good point Loki. It makes me wonder why law enforcement obeys these orders in the first place.
When the banksters want something, our policymakers move with the speed of Mercury and the determination of Ares. It’s only when the rest of us need something that there is paralysis.

How free are we today with the dominance of globalist capital and militarized security apparatus?
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Outcast_Searcher » Sun 13 Nov 2011, 10:01:57

Loki wrote:I particularly liked this paragraph from Taibbi's piece:

... Yet when thousands of ordinary people hit the streets with the express purpose of obeying the law and demonstrating their patriotism through peaceful protest, the police response is immediate and massive. ...

One law for the rich, another law for the rest of us....

Nice distortion field. We've had hundreds of people camping out in PRIVATE parks ILLEGALLY for WEEKS to MONTHS in cities across the U.S. The police actions (directed by the mayors and city councils) have been slow, patient, and generally very reasonable -- responding to direct violence by the LAW BREAKERS when necessary.

Why even bother to write such distorted stuff? To bolster the folks who never watch any news on the TV or read news on the Internet? To bolster the folks who want something for nothing and refuse to even consider the concept of personal responsibility?

The OWS is nothing more than the left's Tea Party. BOTH groups are pissed, and they're protesting in ways that they think will help their cause. Their actions will have consequences, which in the real world will have to be lived with.

That's all fine and dandy. Wild eyed distortion of the obvious is just counterproductive to the point of being silly, however.

But those of Taibbi's ilk would NEVER do that to score political points, now would they? :roll: :shock: :evil:

(edits - fixed grammar and typo)
Given the track record of the perma-doomer blogs, I wouldn't bet a fast crash doomer's money on their predictions.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 13 Nov 2011, 10:11:57

Nice distortion field. We've had hundreds of people camping out in PRIVATE parks ILLEGALLY for WEEKS to MONTHS in cities across the U.S.


ILLEGALLY? Say's who, the 1%er's?

How many times a day do you ILLEGALLY speed in your car or truck?
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby Bruce_S » Sun 13 Nov 2011, 11:09:43

Outcast_Searcher wrote:The OWS is nothing more than the left's Tea Party.


Actually, I think they are two stripes on the same cat. Tea Partiers and their banners are found within Occupier marches, not something publicized by either side much (or the MSM), but it is obvious that chit-chat between the two groups is surprisingly muted.
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Re: Matt Taibbi nails it on OWS!

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 13 Nov 2011, 11:15:02

Tea Partiers and their banners are found within Occupier marches


Show us the pic's shorty?
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