[Pops]

Better take a look at this then go to the ACLU site and send a message:

The U.S. Senate is considering the unthinkable: changing detention laws to imprison people — including Americans living in the United States itself — indefinitely and without charge.

The Defense Authorization bill — a "must-pass" piece of legislation — is headed to the Senate floor with troubling provisions that would give the President — and all future presidents — the authority to indefinitely imprison people, without charge or trial, both abroad and inside the United States.

If enacted, sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA would:

1) Explicitly authorize the federal government to indefinitely imprison without charge or trial American citizens and others picked up inside and outside the United States;

(2) Mandate military detention of some civilians who would otherwise be outside of military control, including civilians picked up within the United States itself; and

(3) Transfer to the Department of Defense core prosecutorial, investigative, law enforcement, penal, and custodial authority and responsibility now held by the Department of Justice.

ACLU Email Your Senator Page

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-secur ... fine-being

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/co ... lice-state

[Cloud9]

Bipartisanship at its best. Anybody that doesn’t recognize the Democratic and Republican parties as members of the same tag team is not paying attention.

[Whitefang]

One party rule........civil war at our doorstep

The final act to nail our coffin, we have the leaders we deserve.
We paid for our own prison.
Cheap energy is gone, climate over the hill.........

[Oakley]

My view is that we are moving toward civil violence, whether you call it revolution or civil war is just a matter of semantics. I think we are actually already in a developing revolution, but still in the peaceful stage where the attitude toward the present power structure is becoming increasingly negative. Fear of government and revulsion with those who occupy the seats of power is widespread.

I have heard it said that those in government know this and know that we know it too. I would say that this legislation is even more evidence that the government is preparing for likely civil disorder. To government "freedom fighters" are terrorist.

The principle operating is simply that when government finally brings sufficient pain and suffering that the population will find it less painful to violently resist; this is the revolution point. In other words, people will have little left to lose so the risk reward ratio makes revolution the choice that naturally results.

[careinke]

I don't know why every one is so upset. I'm sure if the Democratic controlled Senate passes this, it is for our own good and safety. The nations police forces are overwhelmed, a little help from our military will be a good thing. Plus we will not have to go through all those pesky legal loopholes to keep us safe. The Republicans and Democrats who are supporting this bill, have obviously heard the call of the 99% for more cooperation between the two party's. So now they are working on some bi-partisan legislation, and you folks all start complaining! Mother knows whats best for us, and we should just go along. <for the slower readers: SARCASM OFF>

[eastbay]

Congress is obviously preparing for serious civil unrest stemming from the looming, severe economic collapse, as Oakley just suggested.

The steps they're now taking with this bill (which will certainly pass) will not maintain control in the event of a generalized chaos resulting from an accompanying social and political collapse. That'll be far too deep and could leave them powerless.

Acts of Congress addressing this potential outcome may be next. What was once unthinkable is now likely in the works.

[Cloud9]

There is a difference between civil unrest and revolution. Civil unrest is sporadic and driven by circumstance like the Rodney King verdict or food riots in Atlanta during the Civil War. They tend to last three or four days. Revolutions are driven by ideology are planned and tend to be rather long lasting. Share the wealth; put the bankers in jail, and shrink the government are disparate notions not ideologies.

[Pops]

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure who would be waring with whom in a new American civil war. People are going to get pissed more and more, I think that's a given but there isn't going to be any ethnic cleansing or purging of the bourgeoisie no matter how much the NRA corporate sponsorship would dig it.

But, don't think you can't be overheard no matter what type of communication you choose. The ga over the hill gang was caught because the g took a personal interest in what they wrote online, so personal in fact they "infiltrated" the gang, presumably using an unmarked powerchair.

Obviously no one here spouts such blather but I fully believe hyperbole could certainly get a flag on your permanent record.


I didn't gave a rip when they came for Jose Paddia, because I wasn't a raghead terrorist...



http://mediamatters.org/blog/201111020002
http://abcnews.go.com/US/elderly-georgi ... tKTSnPZvyM

[yeahbut]

The steps they're now taking with this bill (which will certainly pass)

Do you really think it will? It sounds like something from a bad made-for-tv movie.

Oh well, I'm sure it's for your own good, citizens. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear

[Cog]

This latest hit to our civil liberties is just an outgrowth of the Patriot Act passed under George the Lessor. It was bad legislation then and its even more bad legislation now. The fact its attached to a Defense authorization bill instead of a stand-alone bill shows the Congress is creating pressure to vote for it, because after all to not support the troops showing a lack of patriotism.

Obama should veto this crap.

[AgentR11]

But, don't think you can't be overheard no matter what type of communication you choose.

I think the question isn't so much, whether they overhear, as I'm sure they do; but rather does the content engage physically disruptive behavior. Someone rambling about "you 1%'ers better fork over the dough or there'll be revolution coming at your door", just isn't going to rise to anyone's level of action; but if someone tried to organize a number of yahoos telling them to meet at X at o-dark-thirty and do Y; then you have something that could prompt counter-insurgent action.

But political banter on an internet forum... is at best humorous, but most likely unworthy of anything other than a statistical measurement of blabbermouths. (or blabberfingers ???)

Obviously no one here spouts such blather but I fully believe hyperbole could certainly get a flag on your permanent record.

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone on the net was flagged with numerous indicators. Storage and access speed for that level of information has been easy-peazy for quite some time. The existence of a flag on an ID isn't important; its when the owner of the ID acts in a manner that is inconsistent with a union between average loudmouth behavior and the flag-indicator that will cause someone to put an eyeball on a screen.

[The Practician]

The steps they're now taking with this bill (which will certainly pass)

Do you really think it will? It sounds like something from a bad made-for-tv movie.

Oh well, I'm sure it's for your own good, citizens. If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear

Is this the made for TV movie you're thinking about?

[AgentR11]

Thread slain by Godwin's law before it even makes the second page.

Oh wait, this is us; carry on!

[davep]

Someone rambling about "you 1%'ers better fork over the dough or there'll be revolution coming at your door", just isn't going to rise to anyone's level of action; but if someone tried to organize a number of yahoos telling them to meet at X at o-dark-thirty and do Y; then you have something that could prompt counter-insurgent action.

I'm not so sure. This has probably been posted already, but if not it's an eye-opener:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/25/shocking-truth-about-crackdown-occupy

...In New York, a state supreme court justice and a New York City council member were beaten up; in Berkeley, California, one of our greatest national poets, Robert Hass, was beaten with batons. The picture darkened still further when Wonkette and Washingtonsblog.com reported that the Mayor of Oakland acknowledged that the Department of Homeland Security had participated in an 18-city mayor conference call advising mayors on "how to suppress" Occupy protests.

To Europeans, the enormity of this breach may not be obvious at first. Our system of government prohibits the creation of a federalised police force, and forbids federal or militarised involvement in municipal peacekeeping...

[AgentR11]

davep, all I read there was suppression of a physical event. As I noted, when it goes from blabbertyping on the net to wandering around outside being annoying, you get an eyeball. If the eyeball no like, you get baton on head syndrome.

They didn't get whacked because they were typing at home/office.

[davep]

davep, all I read there was suppression of a physical event. As I noted, when it goes from blabbertyping on the net to wandering around outside being annoying, you get an eyeball. If the eyeball no like, you get baton on head syndrome.

They didn't get whacked because they were typing at home/office.

Sure, but it's still federal co-ordination in suppression of peaceful protest. Doesn't that worry you, given the vested and corrupt interests involved?

[AgentR11]

Sure, but it's still federal co-ordination in suppression of peaceful protest. Doesn't that worry you, given the vested and corrupt interests involved?

Its hard to be worried about things that I have expected to happen for quite some time. Expect low level counter-action to continue for as long as the protestors confine themselves to non-critical infrastructure. Could be decades. They'll taste the sword if they transition to breakables, and then we'll be in a completely new ballgame.

[Pops]

But political banter on an internet forum... is at best humorous, but most likely unworthy of anything other than a statistical measurement of blabbermouths. (or blabberfingers ???)

...The existence of a flag on an ID isn't important;

Really? I'm kinda surprised, Agent Provocateur and all.

So you are just... inured to all this blah blah about civil rights? Kind of above the fray, eating yer popcorn as Rome burns and all that, besides you knew it was going to happen all along.

Good for you. Personally I'm not so sanguine.