[Heineken]

Or have I?

I went away from here for a couple of years. Have been participating again for about a month.

But the site seems half-dead to me now. Posts go unanswered. People aren't as active, or reactive. There's less humor, less passion. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it seems. Could be I've become a stranger.

"You can't go home again." ---Thomas Wolfe

[Hawkcreek]

You are correct. It is half dead compared to earlier years. Natural progression, I suppose. Maybe everyone moved on to other interests, or just think that they have already said it all.
Kind of a shame - it was a lot of fun when it was young.

[vision-master]

I'd say it's devolved.

[KingM]

It's half dead because the oil situation is relatively stable at the moment. The site will take off again as soon as there is another mini oil crisis.

The fact that it's dead around here is a good sign, IMO. If this place was on fire it would mean the world was in trouble.

[hcholm]

Quiet before the storm.

[EnergyUnlimited]

Or have I?

I went away from here for a couple of years. Have been participating again for about a month.

But the site seems half-dead to me now. Posts go unanswered. People aren't as active, or reactive. There's less humor, less passion. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it seems. Could be I've become a stranger.

"You can't go home again." ---Thomas Wolfe

Everything of relevance is already discussed, digested and accepted.
So perhaps we have an "all books have been written syndrome".

Even debating few "free energy trolls" gone boring these days because conversations with them are predictable.

So yes.
Despite of plenty of doomerish economic news this site gone boring.

[seahorse3]

I agree that all the issues have been hotly debated. Mainly now people watch the news to see the trend of where we are going. As a layman then and today I was always unsure about PO and decided that in time if true it would be born out by the facts. I'm fairly convinced now that PO is a serious issue. We have been on an oil plateau since 2005 despite higher oil prices which should spur more oil production, it has but the oil produced now is more expensive and slower to produce so it only offsets normal declines andnhanst increased overall production. It's no surprise to me then that there is no world GDP growth to sustain the current debt levels. I just ordered Robert Hirschs new book bc he recently came to the conclusion that actual declines would set in about.3 yrs from now. He apparently considers all the latest oil shales do I'm interested in reading what he has to say. As you all know in his 2005 report to the DOE he never put a date on PO now he does

[Pops]

Yeah, we do more navel gazing

PO.com was the first PO forum that took 'hold, in this format anyway. There are several forums now and lots of energy blogs so the audience is kinda fragmented. Plus there are lots and lots of "simple lifestyle" forums now too. I think we talk more about energy here than the other PO forums and maybe less about doom in general.

Unfortunately we also talk a lot less about what to do - what is being done than we did back when. Which is no surprise, now, no matter the topic, the discussion almost instantly devolves into doomer vs corny, left vs right, it's Obama/bushes fault.

The stock signature here should be "You are just like Hitler!"

The worst thing is PO.com isn't quite as much the social place it once was, the founding idea was to be "social media". Now, lots of posts are mean spirited, to say the least. As well, many long-time posters' knees are permanently jerked and they no longer seem willing to listen to new evidence whether it's technical problems or alternatives or mitigation or even the direction of the economy.

At one time people thought PO would be the only thing that mattered but I guess we've found that there are many roads to doom and we're going to be just as divided going down as up!


I guess we all want to make the place better, speaking for myself, I'd be happy to hear any suggestions the staff can do.

[Heineken]

Interesting comments. For some human-nature reason, it's always good to know that one's thoughts and impressions are not experienced in isolation.

I am most struck by the "it's all been said, there's nothing more to say" viewpoint. That's the way I was feeling about my own role here after almost 7,000 posts on all sorts of subjects.

In the end, it's only words, and words can only do so much, no matter how much truth they convey. I used to believe that if only I could find the right words to frame the truth as I (and many others) saw it, the world could be changed. That was the feeling that reading Orwell used to give me---he had touched the pure nerve of truth. It was all there, right there, for people to experience and absorb and grow upon. But . . . the truth changes nothing. It just creates a dreadful poignancy, a deeper sense of the tragedy of humanity. We know, but knowing is not enough.

[AgentR11]

Anything slow is boring to humans. Almost everything that is real, and significant, is very slow. PO is no exception. Back when po got going, the economy was booming, $40 oil was considered the normal high, all economic assumptions were based on real and substantial growth, so there really was a lot of "it is going to be very harsh when... xyz". But instead of the fast, omg stuff stopped working, event; we are getting this slow, grinding beat-down. Honestly, how do you sell excitement or interest, when your message is, "yep, this is it, it'll be slightly worse next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that...."

How do you sell, "permaculture for survival", when the presently employed professional suburb dweller (original target audience) looks at his company, realizes he's made the cut, and for the next DECADE at least, his job is probably fine, even if it may loose some ground on the purchasing power scale over that time.

How do you sell "powerdown and save the earth from GW", when no large emitter can afford what it would take to reduce emissions enough to matter.

It really is to late to alter the trajectory; we're on a scree slope coasting down, as long as you go with the flow, none of the bumps will be fatal, try to stop and go up, or even run down faster, you're in for a world of unpleasantness.

One could think of po.com as group therapy... (even the partisan animosity.) All the arguing and conflict that is displayed is simply proof that the board hasn't become a monotone echo chamber of liberal or conservative group think and talking point affirmation.

find the right words to frame the truth as I (and many others) saw it, the world could be changed.

Better to let the world, and the people in it, be who and what they want to be. Accept and accompany those whom you find enjoyable; ignore (don't try to FIX) those with whom you can not comfortably associate.

[dinopello]

I agree with Heineken on the observations. As for me, its not because my positions have hardened. I'm as uncertain as ever about the future. I still like perusing the posts by people on all sides who are so certain about things in their own mind. Even when they overuse large fonts.

The future's uncertain and the end is always near.

[Plantagenet]

The stock signature here should be "You are just like Hitler!" ... lots of posts are mean spirited, to say the least..... I'd be happy to hear any suggestions the staff can do.

Why not re-emphasize the "Code of Conduct"?

The COC says..

"2.1.4 Avoid flaming and ad hominem attacks within the regular forums....One intent defined by our conduct policies tries to limit "off-topic" posts as much as possible so that the threads stay informative and clear. Flaming and ad hominem attacks are most definitely off-topic."

Clearly posting "you are just like Hitler" or a similar ad hom attack is against the COC.

Here are some suggestions:

ONE: I suggest PO.com would benefit by returning to a closer adherence to the Code of Conduct. Folks who post "you are just like Hitler" or similar flames are in violation of the COC and should be warned and if neccessary suspended.

TWO: The "Code of Conduct" used to be prominently displayed on the sideboard of the site, but its harder to find now. I suggest it be added as an item on the sideboard on the front page of the PO site. This might be especially useful for new posters.

-----------------------------------

Pops---you and the other mods do a great job here in directing the discussions and refocussing discussions on peak oil issues.

However, it is ironic to hear a mod criticizing the huge number of ad hom attacks that some posters do here, since the COC explicitly forbids such postings and the mods already have the tools and authority to stop such postings.

[Loki]

There's still a fair amount of traffic here, not sure how it compares to years ago. Anyone have the data on this? Number of visitors and active posters now compared to, say, 5 years ago?

I used to think discussions were a lot more interesting a few years ago, but I'm not sure if that really was the case. I know I was a lot more interested in these discussions because it was all new to me. But when someone bumps a 5-year-old thread I'm often surprised how few posts it has, and how similar it is to discussions we still have here fairly regularly.

That said, a lot of the posting today is done in threads like the cold fusion one, something like 40 pages and growing. But I have zero interest in such topics. I wish the Planning forum was more active, but it ain't.

I think Pops is right about there being a multitude of other boards and blogs out there, reducing some traffic here at PO.com. Folks more interested in personal preparedness can go to Homesteading Today or Sustainable Country or any number of other boards that are focused more exclusively on practical matters. Folks interested in the EROEI of unicorn farts come here

Pops, I don't have any suggestions on how to improve the board. It is what it is. Still good, maybe not as good as back in the day, definitely too much partisan jibberjabber, but still good.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Of course, the test of time is the best measure of anything. This site has was up and running for awhile until I discovered it in 2004. (I don't know the actual startup date). How many other sites last that long? LATOC didn't, many others will follow them down.

A question of whether this site will be operating after a financial, oil, or economic crash is an important one. I'm sitting here with my buttered popcorn, like many others, hoping I will still have some source of news after TSHTF.

This is also the reality of it. When TSHTF there will be a news blackout. You might know what is going on locally, but news from the 4 corners of the Earth will suddenly be unavailable. Information like satelite observations from Cryosphere today and other 'exotic' information will no longer be accessible.

If TV, newspapers and Internet are suddenly and essentially permanently unavailable, we will have Ham radio and word of mouth news only; unreliable, incomplete, and fragemented at best. Who will know what is really happening in Australia, Antarctica, Hawaii ect?? Even as recently as the 1940's large portions of the Earth were unexplored unknowns. People now accustomed to Google Earth, and having 'live' access to Amazonian rainforests, polar deserts, ect, ect, are going back to living with the unknown.

Peakoil.com can't survive without funding, electrical grids, computers ect, ect. I'll enjoy news and information while it lasts!

[Pops]

We're #2 after Wiki on the search engines for "peak oil", we rank in the top 100 websites in the US (that's 100,000 LOL).
The bounce rate is under 50% (about half the visitors leave after viewing 1 page) but only about 30% of traffic comes from searches which means we are in people's bookmarks.
Average time on site is about 3-1/2 minutes with about 3-1/2 page views per visit and there are almost 1,000 sites linking in...

Really that is probably the best our stats have ever been, there have been spikes of course but long term we're now doing the best we've ever done. Obviously that a lot has to do with admin getting the backend humming along nicely - we're in the top 20% now speed-wise: Hurrah!

Actual membership is pretty opaque, you can look through the member list yourself but I'll tell you that only a very few percent who register ever post and half of those post spam. We want to make it humanly possible to register but deleting SEOs and bots are a daily chore, our defenses were low there for a while and you saw what that was like!

But what's easy to forget is that for every registered member signed in here at any one time there are at least 10 guests, sometimes twice that or more. What you post up here does have an audience. Whether you post crap or gold is what makes the site good or bad. It's just that simple.

I can't tell you exactly what that means in the overall scheme of things but I do think it's worth putting in at least a little effort into post something worth reading and civil in tone.


Sorry, kinda preachy there.

[Ferretlover]

When the ratio of realists to deniers is altered, so is the board. IMO, a great many of the active posters are realists, have considered the problems facing humanity & the planet these days, and are trying to fine tune when predicted events will happen & affect their lives by collecting data regarding the situation in the real world. They don't need to be persuaded-they know.
As more and more oeople begin to see what's going on, there's going to be an awful scramble for all resources.
The PFTF forum has many informative threads; however, there is much more information, IMHO, that needs to be collected to give our members & their famillies that provberbial "fighting chance." It would be helpful if our members would look it over and see what kind of data is absent, then start sharing.
I don't know what the next Golden Age will be like, but I think it is a looonnnggg ways off (none of us will see it).
Do the best you can, help those who want to be helped (to do it themselves-remember, no good deed goes unpunished), and stay under the radar as far down as you can.
And, Pops is right: Being civil will be more and more important just as it becomes more and more difficult due to circumstances.

[Loki]

I can't tell you exactly what that means in the overall scheme of things but I do think it's worth putting in at least a little effort into post something worth reading civil in tone.

Damn Pops, you sound just like Hitler!

Kidding of course. Thanks for the numbers, I suspected traffic was still pretty strong compared to a few years ago. But like I said, my guess is that much of it is focused on parsing the latest IEA numbers to death, debating false solutions like cold fusion, or throwing partisan bombs about the latest shenanigans in DC.

Climate change is another big topic these days that wasn't discussed nearly as much a few years ago here at PO.com, but I think that's a positive development.

I think the slow movement of the Planning forum may have something to do with the realization that peak oil happened, and all we got was this lousy recession (to quote dohboi). Economic decline is just plain boring, and how one reacts to it largely depends on one's personal employment situation.

Preparing for TEOTWAWKI---lights out and die off---on the other hand is a lot more fun to talk about, and requires major changes in just about every area of one's life, bringing up a lot more practical questions that people need answered. Most of those folks seem to have moved on, though.

[AgentR11]

Several "end of the internets" posts here; I know its a common theme, and we look to see that other governments try to suppress information. One, its easy to note how horribly they fail at it, and how poorly pulling the plug actually works as far as reducing physical protest. I suspect here and in other developed countries, the internet won't be seen as a threat, but rather a tool. Something to keep rowdy people at home, in their chairs, eating cheese dip, and typing offensive messages. Add some government sponsored disinformation and trollification into the mix, and all I see is TPTB singing "thank God for the Internet".

What better way to keep troublemakers at home? That's the purpose; no one cares what you know, or don't know, as long as you aren't breaking stuff they care about. And if you're at home, typing, you aren't breaking.

That's just how I see it. No one can know until something really nasty happens anyway.

[Heineken]

All systems eventually destabilize. What seems so solid and permanent, isn't. Peakoil.com, our civilization, and everything in-between. You especially notice the powerful workings of this law when you've "been away" for awhile, as I was from here.

Entropy is a perfect force that produces first imperfection, then nothingness.